If only it was that simple! You have to take some relevant circumstances into account: A Hungarian civil society without…
Orbán’s Hungary and NATO Membership
Hungary joined NATO on March 12th, 1999. Although this happened during the 1st Orbán government, the invitation from NATO side dates from July 1997, the referendum about joining was held on November 16th, 1997, which gave the Horn government a go from the voters. It was no coincidence that already before, on May 27th 1997, between NATO and Russia the Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security between NATO and the Russian Federation ►EN was signed. This treaty clearly states that the partners in “respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security” and refers to “new members.” In short words: We are no threat to each other and we respect the rights of all other countries, including the right of joining NATO, other alliances, or not to do so.
This treaty is still in force. Why am I emphasising this? Because Russia called NATO to return to the 1997 borders ►EN. Although the Russian foreign ministry only mentioned Romania and Bulgaria by name, the call to withdraw “all foreign troops, weapons and other military hardware” [….] from these countries” includes the Baltic states, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, the former Yugoslavian republics as far as they are members, Albania and of course Hungary as well. The treaty of 1997 only limits nuclear weapons in those countries.
In Hungarian press I found pretty fast the reactions from Romania and Bulgaria refusing the idea of leaving NATO, but did the Hungarian government react on the Russian demand to leave NATO? No! 5 days silence. Well, not complete silence, yesterday foreign minister Szijjártó praised Russia for delivering vaccines, and gas, further he made a strange comment about a delivery of train carriages to Egypt “thanks to Russia,” we might remember that Éva reported on the contract that has been granted to a Hungarian company and that Orbán shared with Putin and cronies, while the originally benefited company got nothing. He thanked Russia for a lot of things, mostly done in the very own interest of Russia as well. A word about NATO membership? No ►HU!
Many articles have been written about Ukraine possibly joining NATO or not, and about the conditions Szijjártó has set in this regard. But it took until today that I found the 1st article about the Russian demand that Hungary should leave NATO and Orbán’s silence. Telex correctly stated “The Hungarian government, which is so militant in defending its sovereignty against the EU, has not spoken out now, Viktor Orbán will meet with Putin in Moscow next week” ►HU. Telex goes into the depth of the most recent conflict, names different expectations what could happen in Ukraine, tells the Russian story that NATO would be obligated not to expand to former Warsaw Pact states (this would include the Eastern part of Germany as well,) and that NATO should not engage in Ukraine, Georgia (both candidate members,) other countries in the South Caucasus, and Central Asia. They remind that the 9 000 NATO soldiers in the Baltic states and Poland along the Russian border are more symbolic than a threat.
The Romanian government stated “the presence of NATO soldiers is a purely defensive reaction to Russia’s aggressive behaviour towards our eastern neighbour, which is becoming increasingly harsh despite NATO’s commitment to constructive dialogue.” Up to now only the opposition mentioned this, although not as part of a statement on future foreign and military policies, but they mentioned it as part of the call on Orbán to cancel the visit to his friend Putin ►HU.
Hungary is not on its way into a new dependence of Russia, Orbán already handed our country over to Putin. He did not oppose the Russian suggestion, because it is exactly what he wants. If Orbán won’t be thrown out of office we will see Hungary not only leave the EU, but NATO as well.
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That’s about the only good thing that’s coming out of the Ukraine confrontation!
Now everybody can see what kind of autocrat and fascist O1G is.
And I’m wondering how many Hungarian voters still agree with him.
If the majority does so then – F*ck off from NATO and EU!
Nobody in the democratic countries will be sorry to get rid of them – except maybe those who would enjoy another holiday at the Balaton …
Of course democratic Hungarians are invited to join the EU, we need young intelligent workers and pay good money in Germany too.
End of rant …
Balaton has nothing to fear, Hungary will need the hard currency if they leave the EU. Although considering Mészáros and Tiborcz have been building luxury complexes, going to such hotel has become somehow expensive, it might take a much weaker Forint to attract Western tourists back to cheap HU. Today, clearly, there are not enough Hungarians to fill up all the accommodation places. Our last experience at Lake Velence 3 years ago was that there are not that many foreigners staying in our hotel, we mostly saw Romanians (most likely Szeklers) and Slovaks. A few years back it was common to see Germans and Austrians, even Dutch tourists.
As far as NATO goes, I read years ago that Hungary was seen as a Russian mole by other Members. I am not sure what this means in terms of access to intelligence by Hungarian officers though.
Never understood the fascination with the Baloton. My cousin has a place at Csopak, so I’ve bean there a number times over the years, but mostly out of politeness. Not much chop as somewhere to swim, and in my opinion, there are quite a few more picturesque lakes throughout Germany, Austria and Switzerland.
Reasons for going on holiday at the Balaton:
Easy to reach by car
Hotels and good food were cheap
West Germans could meet their East German family members
So many people have fond memories of these places
People are/were nice
After 1989 however many establishments had to close down because their standards were not comparable to Spanish or Italian and even East Germans wanted more luxury.
I never went to the Eastern Bloc before 1989 after being treated badly by the East German Vopo once – only Yugoslavia was ok.
My parents took me there as a child a couple of times, though I don’t have much of a memory of it. My mum used to sing it’s praises quite a bit. I didn’t get there (the Balaton) on my visits to Hungary in the 70’s, I didn’t get there again until 1991. It was more than a bit disappointing, though I kept it to myself.
From were you lived in Germany, Bodensee is also quite easy to reach by car and quite a bit more attractive. I get that it was cheap, (but not so much anymore); but as a “strand” it’s pretty crap. Yugoslavia was brilliant (compared to Hungary) in the 70’s.
Hungary is Putin’s Trojan Horse …
Oh, Putin is sitting inside Orbán – and I thought he just would be fat!
Okay, seriously: It only works as long as everybody believes Orbán would be a present for the gods and there are so many Cassandras around.
Hopefully it will work as well as a Russian watch.
No, everybody in the EU knows that O1G can’t be trusted. Just look at the articles in the Austrian media (Standard.at eg) or at the reaction of the EPP – which is conservative. The leftist and liberal parties wouldn’t even accept a present from the Hun government.
Why doesn’t my avatar work ?
What is wrong with your avatar?
It’s not showing here , just my nic typed out in two lines, everyone else’s shows
Same thing here.
I thought your post was a very good summary of the situation and want to thank you for it. I also commend the post for referencing directly the 1997 treaty which is important in the context of current Russia demands on NATO and on the USA to no longer provide nuclear support for NATO in a proposed treaty (see ttps://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790818/?lang=en). The 1967 treaty states on nuclear weapons: “The member States of NATO reiterate that they have no intention, no plan and no reason to deploy nuclear weapons on the territory of new members, nor any need to change any aspect of NATO’s nuclear posture or nuclear policy – and do not foresee any future need to do so. This subsumes the fact that NATO has decided that it has no intention, no plan, and no reason to establish nuclear weapon storage sites on the territory of those members, whether through the construction of new nuclear storage facilities or the adaptation of old nuclear storage facilities. Nuclear storage sites are understood to be facilities specifically designed for the stationing of nuclear weapons, and include all types of hardened above or below ground facilities (storage bunkers or vaults) designed for storing nuclear weapons.”
But within NATO Hungary has never opposed NATO’s 2010 Strategic Concept and the 2012 Deterrence and Defense Posture Review which indicates without question that even the Fidesz government wanted the NATO nuclear shield over Hungary to remain in place. Moreover, Hungary is part of NATO’s Nuclear Planning Group (NPG) reviews and sets the Alliance’s nuclear policy as are all NATO nations with the exception of France. Hungary is however not part of what is called the senior advisory body to the NPG on nuclear policy and planning issues is the NPG High Level Group (HLG). But Hungary’s Defense minister would be informed of all decision of the high level group and NATO press releases have indicated that the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland have attended NPG meetings consistently over the years.
But there is a concern not discussed in Istvan’s post that I have that there is the very real possibility of lurking in the back of the mind of Orban is riding a white horse into Beregszász it back into a greater Hungary in the event of a full scale take over of Ukraine by Russian forces and the establishment of a pro-Russian puppet government that has been discussed in the media.
There was of course a map of greater Hungary in many American Hungarian homes in the early 1960s Chicago that included part of Ukraine. To this day the American Hungarian Federation (AHF) here in the USA generates a fair amount of greater Hungary propaganda including this video http://www.americanhungarianfederation.org/videos/AHF_TheTragedyOfTheTreatyOfTrianon_ConferenceVideo.mp4
and a classic map of greater Hungary for children studying the Hungarian language largely in Church based programs as I did as a child.
Of course as a child being raised in our bilingual community in Chicago, things were relatively simple. We could blame most of our problems on the communists particularly following 1956 which was reinforced constantly particularly for boys like myself who were in the Hungarian scouts and were encouraged to do service in the armed forces of the USA in our crusade against communism internationally. In fact when I was commissioned as a US Army officer, prior to being sent to Vietnam an event was held in my honor in our Church community area. Our small community here in Chicago provided at least 20 young men to the US armed forces during the Vietnam war, and the name of one is on the Vietnam memorial wall in Washington DC. We have here in Chicago our own war memorial to our combat losses in Vietnam which were significant. The Polish Catholic community in Chicago provided many more young men for that war effort because of the massive size of that community. Most young men from Central European ancestry here in Chicago volunteered for military service during the Vietnam era prior to being drafted.
So far the AHF which praised Hungary for joining NATO has said nothing about the threat of Russia to fully invade the country and honestly I do not expect it to do so.
I agree with the Russians about their claim in the proposed treaty with the USA that nuclear war is “unthinkable.” But I do not believe Russia is being honest in stating that. Like the USA the Russian Federation thinks a good amount about nuclear war (see for example https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37569/putin-reveals-existence-of-new-nuclear-command-bunker-and-says-its-almost-complete or https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/18/kaliningrad-nuclear-bunker-russia-satellite-photos-report ). I know that here in the USA we have many similar plans and facilities for some to survive nuclear war.
It is insanity without question, but then when I showed up in Europe following Vietnam we even still had some nuclear tipped artillery shells in Europe for use against a projected Russian armor assault on the west. Today we have Rocket Assisted Projectiles (RAP) that could if needed be armed with tactical nuclear bombs that will fire though standard artillery pieces in the arsenals of all nations. Some such weapons will have a range of 60 miles.
Even some more kindly supposedly passive countries are involved in these projects for example Netherlands Organization for Applied Scientific Research, better known by the Dutch acronym TNO has a project on Rocket Assisted Projectiles. Being a retired artillery officers I still read this stuff. The Russian Iskander missile has a range of up to 310 miles and they are now in the border areas of Russia, they are also nuclear-capable weapons.
Thanks for post today. Ironic that Orban, who called for the removal of Soviet/Russian troops from Hungary, at reburial of Nagy Imre is largely silent about the current threat to Ukraine, let alone all of eastern Europe. The strange regard that autocrats such as Orban, Trump etc. have for Putin is still hard for many to believe. Prof. Timothy Snyder’s book, “The Road to Unfreedom, Russia, Europe and Hungary” suggests some of the reasons why these leaders have so much in common. For example, rather than offer any real reforms, all these leaders offer endless emotional threats of the “other”, which this blog has done a good job of high lighting in Hungary i.e. the regime obsession with LGBT people, the clearly antisemitic campaign against George Soros,
the anti”migrant” propaganda etc. George Orwell was prescient in his predictions and warnings of the future.
It is not a Hungarian mission.
It is a Russian mission, with some willing helpers.
…. and completely OT; the pixie has just walloped another ‘merkin.