Are these guy that ignorant or even crazy? Orbán held talks with Vladimir Orlic, the president of Serbia’s National Assembly,…
Only the Warmongers Demonstrate for Peace
Putin’s war (to quote Olaf Scholz) has divided Hungary even deeper. At least regarding propaganda and facts. The Orbán regime has hard times to condemn the Russian aggression. Szijjártó knew to talk about Putin’s war without even mentioning Russia or Putin, Orbán condemned Putin’s war only on behalf of our allies, but neither on personal title, nor in the name of Hungary.
The propaganda machine reports quite neutral about Putin’s war. It is happening, but I found no comments, no opinions, and no background information about international law for example. There are Russian soldiers in Ukraine. Done. Yes, there has been the one or other item what this means to Hungary, but at the end it went not further than the statement that Hungary wasn’t or won’t be attacked. But of course the regime media fired fully against the democratic forces in the country. They, especially Péter Márki-Zay, would have said that we have to send troops and weapons into Ukraine. As proof they used a snippet from the Partizán 60’ interview I covered ►EN the morning after it has been published. Yes, he ventilated his sympathies for Ukraine, he said – 10 days before Putin sent his troops – that he would like to see Ukraine joining NATO, but he did never call Hungarian troops to fight against Russia now, nor did he call NATO to get involved. But he called for loyalty with NATO and he would not resist fulfilling Hungary’s obligations in case of a NATO decision, but as well that a NATO decision would be needed. A decent statement, it should be so obvious that it should be regarded as not noteworthy. But not with a propaganda machine aiming on misinformation only. Already yesterday I mentioned that I got an email from the corona information centre – everybody needed an email address to get vaccination – that the opposition wants to get involved into the war. This seems the main story of a regime in trouble.
For Orbán it is definitely hard to explain, why he is so a good friend of Putin, why Putin would be so different from Khrushchev or Brezhnev. Or what would be the difference between the Russian invasions in 1956 and 2022! So greedy Orbán fast went back to one of his always-used fairy tales: Only his personal ties to Putin would make our gas soooo cheap. It is hard to believe whether this remains enough to explain away the devotion Orbán’s. Russia is not really the favourite country of Hungarians and its already bad reputation might suffer a lot now. Orbán’s hate of the West could seriously loose ground.
Yesterday’s regime news on M1 at 10 p.m. has covered demonstrations for peace all over the world. Just one they “forgot” to mention: The one in Budapest under the motto “Siding with Ukraine, Against Putin” MZP called for yesterday morning. The liars from Magyar Nemzet covered it, they wrote: “Ukraine was almost nor mentioned at all.” I am sure the several 1000s who participated would witness differently. Ukraine and Putin, war and peace were mentioned way more often than the words election or vote. Among the demonstrators not only few Ukrainians, singing their national anthem together before the beginning. The masses needed to be organised in the beginning, because some stood still far away. “Ruszkik, haza [Russians, home]!”, “Putyin, menj haza [go home]!” or “Stop Putin! Stop War!” were shouted repeatedly, as well as “Ukraine, Ukraine!” and “Europe, Europe!”
On the stage Zsolt Osváth, a publicist, talked about the news of the last months that no war would happen, he believed it and wanted to believe it. The worse was his surprise when he awoke with war in the country next to us. So he really wanted to stand out for peace, the only thing he could do.
Ágnes Vadai (DK) said that now we see what the words of Putin are worth. Big Ukraine towns in flames, smoke comes out of houses from rockets that went into, families with small children are fleeing into shelters or cellars. This is the true face of Vladimir Putin. And this is the power Viktor Orbán since 10 years is rubbing. Orbán had as being the friend of Putin to be the friend of war as well. We don’t want this kind of friends for ourselves! If you sleep with a bear you never know when he will have you for breakfast. We remember our past, we remember 1956. And we won’t forget the man who said 30 years ago “Ruszkik, haza!” The crowd started shouting “Putyin haza” at this moment. Vadai said “We Hungarians are not like this, we are members of EU and NATO!” She spoke about the fact that Hungarians in referendums have chosen to join NATO and EU as well. That we have chosen for peace and not for the aggressor. For Europe and not for the use of arms. The Orbán government should be aware of that and represent Hungarians by doing so. The PM should clearly stay out to condemn Russia’s aggression against Ukraine. And the foreign minister should come home from Bahrain and talk to the Russian foreign minister, from whom he got the Russian medal of friendship. And to end Paks 2. This is what a “national” government would do.
Máté Kanász-Nagy (LMP) sided with Ukraine and called the day would find access to history books as the black day of Putin. He reminded the attacks from the propaganda outlets and members of governments and he would have liked to hear a clear statement condemning the war instead of long talking about doing business with Putin as Orbán did. We should listen to the Polish government that very clearly talked about the situation. The Poles refused to do business with an aggressor. It is impossible having trust in contracts closed with someone who believes in using tanks and pursuit planes. Hungary mustn’t make itself dependent on an aggressive, war-starting dictator.
Ágnes Kunhalmi (MSZP) started with the words “we stay with Ukraine” in Ukrainian language and called the foreign minister to give back the medal of friendship. She took German North Stream 2 decision as example of good government. Where overdone nationalism turns to we have seen today through Putin. Hungary and all Europe should learn out of the consequences of history falsification Putin did calling Ukraine essentially Russian territory. For Europe and for peace.
László Józan, Hungarian actor born in Transcarpathia, followed. He spoke about in which environment he grew up. With many nationalities, many languages, peaceful in mutual respect. He had all trust in a free and peaceful world. He is afraid about family and friends, he feels with all those in the fighting areas and expressed his solidarity with everybody living in Ukraine.
László György Lukács (Jobbik) spoke how 180 km away his 3 children go to bed, where only the dad is missing, because of talking in Budapest about peace. But 1000 away there are families with 3 children as well, children that can’t be brought to bed in a peaceful situation without knowing what might bring tomorrow. Where the dad is missing, because he has to face the invaders Putin sent. Hungary must stay on the side of peace. We have to help the Hungarians behind the border to Ukraine and the refugees of war.
Anna Donáth (Momentum) called the years 1997 and 2003 as the years the Hungarians have voted to be members of NATO and EU. Her generation grew up in peace and never thought that a war would take place close by. There is no way in searching friends among murderous dictators as Orbán did. With a strong and unified reaction Europe has to protect the Hungarians in Transcarpathia as well as every Ukraine woman, man, and child who wants peace.
Gergely Karácsony (P) talked about a 1000 years dream of Hungarians. Living in a free and peaceful Europe. We have paid with our blood for this dream in 1848 and 1956. And in 1989 a young man (Orbán) a few 100 meters from here called “Ruszkik, haza!” He spoke out that the crowd is not demonstrating against the Russian people, but against Putin. Orbán betrayed the 1000 years dream. He stands with Ukraine, yesterday he put out the Ukraine flag in front of the city hall and the lightning of the Fisher’s Bastion will follow. “Our place is where peace is, where people co-operate, where we want to be since 1000 years: In Europe.” We mustn’t forget that Ukraine has been attacked by Russian tanks, because they want to be part of Europe as well. He told that the city is preparing to help refugees.
Last speaker was Péter Márki-Zay. Since 1945 the 1st time a war between sovereign European countries broke out. Since generations we did not believe in war. He told how happy is his situation only to know from the telling of his grandparents how it is when houses collapses after bombing, how it is to lose someone, to find him back at soldier graves. As easy the word war is spoken out, the difficult is to understand its meaning. The most important is peace! He acknowledged that some have spoken about changing the government on April 3rd for having a government that sides with Ukraine and not with the aggressor. Yes, on April 3rd we will vote out Viktor Orbán, but this evening we have a way more important task, he said. This evening we don’t have left or right, this evening is about humans, about Hungarians, Ukrainians, and Russians. He said that it was not accidental that the EU got the Nobel Peace Price. The EU is the example how to solve conflicts in peace. Since we did not have war in Europe, while the 100 years before Germans and French fought against each other in 3 wars. Only EU and NATO guarantee the independence of Hungary, the warrants of peace, while 200 km from the Hungarian border bombs are dropping and while Putin wants to erect a new Soviet Union. So often we stood on the wrong side, so often we caused sorrows to the nation and its people. We won’t wait any longer and we ask Viktor Orbán to end the swing politics. We don’t ask, we demand to end the swing politics. Finally Viktor Orbán has condemned the Russian aggression, finally Viktor Orbán has admitted that we should act together with our allies in NATO and our partners in EU. Further he demanded that Viktor Orbán should agree in a common reaction with the EU (the demonstration took place before the EU meeting ended, so I can mention here and now he did) and that he should suspend Paks 2 and end the presence of the Russian spy bank in Budapest. Next symbolically demand was that Szijjártó should hand back the medal of friendship to Lavrov. Thereafter MZP prayed on the stage for peace, before the demonstration ended ►HU.
After the anthems of Ukraine and Hungary were sung those with flags of Ukraine and the EU were asked to bring them to the FIDESZ party offices nearby. These have been blocked by police, so the delivery became difficult ►HU.
So the regime is hardly talking about Putin’s war, except when it is about attacks on Péter Márki-Zay. The only demonstration for peace held in Hungary was held by the “warmongers” from the democratic parties. FIDESZ decided not to join for a common demonstration and did not call for an own event either. That Unity for Hungary has chosen to side with Ukraine makes the difference and delivered again reasons to be attacked by the regime. Also in Hungary things escalate. While things in Ukraine are incomparable more severe of course the unequal struggle in Hungary went into another stage as well.
Russia and Ukraine is like China and Taiwan, or?
„… Taiwan’s air force scrambled again on Thursday to warn away nine Chinese aircraft that entered its air defense zone, Taiwan’s defense ministry said, on the same day that Russia invaded Ukraine, a crisis being watched closely in Taipei.
Taiwan, which China claims as its own territory, has complained of regular such missions by the Chinese air force over the last two years, though the aircraft do not get close to Taiwan itself.
The number of aircraft involved was well off the last large-scale incursion, 39 Chinese aircraft on Jan. 23, and since then, such fly-bys have been sporadic with far fewer aircraft. …“
Well that was a long and complex post, clearly the situation merits it. I hope more than ever for the sake of the Hungarian people Orban is defeated. I have assumed for a long time that if Orban survives April 6, he will move towards what the Russian State now is, which goes well beyond the Mafia state analysis of Bálint Magyar for Hungary.
Unfortunately for Orban if he goes that route he must accept playing the role assigned to him by Russia’s Putin assuming Putin lives a good long life, which I do not wish him. Belarus’s leader Alexander Lukashenko formally kept power but actually has become a vassal of Russia, that would be the future for Orban as far as Putin is concerned.
Orban’s problem is he wants to play being in the West and implement an authoritarian state simultaneously and that would not be acceptable to Putin as is obvious from his now infamous speech preparing for the invasion on Ukraine and the treaty his cronies, Sergey Lavrov leading that crew, drew up requiring all the post communist governments in Central Europe and the Baltic to leave NATO and lay prostrate before Lord Vlad the New Impaler. If Orban goes that route and tries to balance Putin and the west, I believe Putin will have him eliminated and replaced with someone more compliant who listens more carefully to Putin’s lectures at the Valdai Discussion Club. So this coming election is critical for the future of Hungary and MZP for all his faults is not falling into Putin’s trap he is setting for Orban.
Of course the entire idea that MZP and the opposition wants to cross the border and enter into direct combat with the Russian hordes is absurd and really wasn’t even what Magyar Nemzet initially accused him of in their article. Rather they were arguing his comments on NATO interventions outside of member states were something that happened and could happen again where dangerous in the context of Ukraine to the point of being reckless. His formulation of those brief statements were clearly not the best, because he knew that in this context the outcome of a NATO intervention with combat forces in Ukraine would likely lead to at least tactical nuclear war, if not more than that. Putin just a day ago threatened NATO with a nuclear attack in a not so veiled way saying ““consequences greater than any you have faced in history” if it intervened directly in opposition to the Russian invasion.
But all of this brings us back to the peace issue in the post and the demonstration outside the Russian embassy in Budapest. We are now already deeply into a new cold war and I suspect nuclear weapons will play a big role in that given how Putin repeatedly throws down that card in his speeches. His propaganda machine still formally argues it believes in mutually assured destruction in the event of nuclear warfare between east and west, but I think Putin has some illusions of survivability of such warfare. I know their continue to be people here in the US military industrial complex that believe that and argue for a covert first strike policy or what is more often called a preemptive strike. As I said the other day in a post, there were several other retired officers arguing on line that Putin’s prepositioning of up to 40% or so of his armed forces around Ukraine was actually a great opportunity to destroy the bulk of the Russian army and a good part of its naval forces with tactical nukes. At a rally here in Chicago yesterday in the Ukrainian community I also heard people mumbling about why didn’t the US attack Putin’s invasion army with nukes while they were staging outside Ukraine’s borders, as if it would not lead to a nuclear war.
I think that is insanity, but it’s also disingenuous for Hungary and other NATO countries to argue they are opposed to nukes on their land when US nukes lurk over their shoulders at Putin. Its a nightmare come true for me, going back to the cold war yet again. No treaties between the USA, Russia, and China over nuclear arms reduction are conceivable in the wake of Putin’s invasion and a deep belief among many foreign policy people in the USA that China may one day do the same with Taiwan one morning.
I couldn’t agree more with the fact that everything NATO would do right now out of area would cause WWIII with all consequences. But the quotes of MZP were from an earlier stage, where “only” Russian troops were near the borders. There were enough politicians around thinking about solutions on and around February 13th, the day MZP gave that interview. To say that all agreements including a NATO decision would find his active help was really the best answer. Whatever NATO decides! The best answer for peacekeeping through mutual agreement and the only in case of common defence. Only Putin and Lavrov knew that they only talked for the show. As a politician said today “I was shocked how much Lavrov has lied directly into my face.” An answer given before Putin’s war isn’t necessarily valid today any more. Poland has always done strict border checks at the outer border to Ukraine. Today you don’t need valid travel documents to cross the border. Their answer changed. Not legal, but in this very case the better answer. Of course using the right context always needs an honest approach. That the Orbán propaganda doesn’t tell that the context changed from looking for a solution good for both sides to war shouldn’t surprise, these people never took notice from the statement until the situation changed and abuse of the interview was serving their interests. Although it would be legal within the framework of international law that the Hungarian army could help Ukraine against the invading Russian troops, as long as Ukraine allows, but it would be completely senseless. So nobody suggested it, besides the liars of the propaganda ministry.
Lavrov seems at this very moment to be double dealing. It appeared he was willing to enter a peace discussion with the elected government of Ukraine to halt the bombardment of Kiev, now Putin will agree to no cease fire leading to discussions. All Ukrainian forces must surrender their weapons prior to discussions.
True, and talks should take place in Minsk, from where tanks entered Ukraine, and after the army has putsched away the legal government. The democratically elected Nazis (with a Jewish president nota bene) full of drug abusers.
I never lead political discussions, let alone those that should lead to a peace agreement. In the business sphere you start negotiations a bit differently….
By the time these “negotiations” start the Ukraine will be already occupied ie. within a week. Then Lavrov will be ready to talk….
Even if the regime with its constant propaganda-flooding can’t generate credibility, they are very successful at cementing the widely popular belief, that “The politicians on both sides are corrupt liars” (“trustworthy persons can’t possibly achieve a political carreer in Hungary”).
Based on reading US newspapers and this article in the Russian RT news https://www.rt.com/russia/550617-response-to-negotiations-ukraine/ it appears in the last 12 hours the Russians have completed surrounding Kiev sufficiently for military purposes, after what appears to have been a significant battle the Russians captured the Hostomel airfield outside of Kiev after having initially been defeated by the Ukrainian army. According the reports I read the Russians came back with a force of over 200 combat helicopters and airborne troops. It sounds like many Ukrainians died fighting for the base and never simply surrendered fighting while retreating. So now the Russian armor and the paratroopers are linked just outside the capital.
So the Russians are willing to have Zelensky come to Belarus for what Zelensky says is to “sit at the negotiation table to stop human fatalities.” The Russian conditions are the complete demilitarization of Ukraine and some kind of formal neutral status along with so called denazification. Hopefully Zelensky can save his own life, his family’s lives, and those of other officials of the elected government of Ukraine by making some kind of peace deal.
As I wrote the other day that the belief the capital can be defended by urban warfare is delusional, because the Russians will reduce areas of resistance to rubble killing combatants and civilians together. I will be the first to say that I participated in just such a reduction of parts of Panama City during the US invasion of 1989 where we believed General Manuel Noriega might be holding up in a command bunker. I was actually commanding light artillery in the streets blowing apart buildings in a residential area the command bunker was located in and even though we announced to civilians to evacuate over incredibly loud speakers some did not or could not . The US military also did this in the Second Battle of Fallujah Iraq was fought November 7 to 16, 2004, and the Russians did it Second Chechen War in the Chechen capital Grozny after a winter siege that lasted from December 1999 until February 2000. It’s a pretty standard tactic and has been so since World War II.
I assume the NATO officers in contact with the Ukrainian military are advising them of all of this and Zelensky has been told this tale. I feel that Zelensky made huge tactical mistakes in this war by not consolidating his armed forces near the Polish border where there might be some NATO pressure on Russian forces and a place of refuge for the wounded. I suspect he was repeatedly advised to do that by the US and NATO people once the full scope of the Russian invasion coming from many points became apparent. He insisted on defending every inch of Ukrainian soil which was tactically impossible. But now that is history and even by tactically retreating Zelensky at best might have saved a small part of Ukraine from Putin while killing many more Russian troops than may have been the case with this unconsolidated Ukrainian defense strategy. I think to be honest I am very depressed at that, but also deeply inspired by the opposition of many Russians of good will to the madness of Putin.
I have just heard, though I cannot authenticate it, that Ukraine does not allow men of military age to leave the country for Hungary, whether or not they are also Hungarian passport holders. Military age ends at 60. Women and children can leave. Seems to show a serious intention not to allow Ukrainian reservists to desert. Many of the older reservists would have served in the Red Army.
I can confirm the ban for men between 18 and 60. Ukraine doesn’t accept double citizenship. Wouldn’t help anyway. General rule: If you have the nationality of the country where you are you are not regarded being foreigner.
“Orban haza” (to Russia like Rakosi, Matyas after 1956).
Is the real name perhaps Janos Kadar?
Misi is right. He was the Hungarian dictator who fled to Russia in 1956, where he spent the rest of his life. Kádár came back with the Russians and died in Hungary.
This opinion piece https://thehill.com/opinion/international/595843-with-kyiv-under-siege-ukraines-leaders-must-ensure-continuity-of is nearly identical in part to the plan I saw one line for protracted war against the Russians supposedly endorsed by several western intelligence agencies and the Poles over a week ago.
Thanks to both Istvans for the detailed commentary via multiple posts.
On February 21, external spy chief Нары́шкин played the role of Pelikán from the movie “A tanú”:
“Excuse me comrade Virág, but this is not [my] witness testimony, this is [already] the sentence”
“I support the proposal about the entry of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics into the Russian Federation.”
(It is obvious that Naryshkin was afraid to state his opposition to the invasion of Ukraine).
Other Putinesque lies on the same day:
More lies from Putin:
February 25 frontlines:
Thanks for this map, best detail to date that I have reviewed.
Midnight (26 February 2022 – 00:38 local time) speech by President Zelensky:
“This night the enemy will use all the forces available to break our resistance. […] This night we have to withstand.”
“We cannot lose the capital.”
Allegedly, Putin’s private yacht “Graceful” anchored up at Snake Island this evening, following a naval attack which allegedly killed all the defenders of the miniscule Ukrainian outpost in the Black Sea.
Russia has been known to manipulate position-data in the Black Sea with “ghost ships” before.
GRACEFUL, Yacht – Details and current position – IMO 1011551 – VesselFinder
Latest news from Kiev:
“02.04” – Szijjártó offers to mediate in Budapest-based peace-talks.
Here’s chilling video of how war turns ugly, always: watch 1.50 when a Russian tank, ie. some lowly lieutenant rank commander crushes a moving car and the miraculous survivor.
After Putin installs a puppet regime in Kiev, what next?
He doesn’t want NATO in the Baltics, but if there wasn’t NATO there, they would have been made vassal states as Belorus with similar regimes:
controlled economy to fit the Russian interest (Hungary bought a nuclear power station, dated metro stock) and semi dictatorship to ensure permanent power and stifle dissent with its respective ugly attributes as censored media, if any left at all, banned civil organization, a system of spying, intimidation and brutal repression, etc.
Putin doesn’t like the prickly Poles ….
after that maybe the Germans should reconsider and oblige with the supply of some industrial technology and
everyone pay higher gas prices after the Russian navy stops LNG shipping to Europe because of alleged price dumping ….
I can give you more scenarios much more credible than Lavrov’s lies yesterday.
Appeasement doesn’t worked except to buy some time, a credible threat is needed as a deterrent, T.Roosevelt’s big stick, which btw Europe doesn’t have (and Israel does, hence no attacks by neighboring states since 1973, right?)
Putin calculated that the Budapest Memorandum is worth nothing, as Crimea already has proven. If Ukraine would not have given all its nuclear weapons to Russia the situation today would be very different! And Putin – if not going to commit suicide – won’t attack NATO. This does not mean that he doesn’t threat Finland and Sweden as yesterday https://www.newsweek.com/russia-threatens-finland-sweden-nato-ukraine-invasion-1682715.
I’ve just heard from a Ukrainian politician on the radio that Cyprus and Italy have now both agreed to cut Russia off from SWIFT transactions and the only country vetoing this sanction now is Hungary…?
seems to be confirmed by portfolio.hu: https://www.portfolio.hu/bank/20220226/mar-csak-magyarorszagon-mulik-hogy-kivagjak-e-az-oroszokat-a-vilag-penzugyi-verkeringesebol-529315
Notorious Russian lover Milos Zeman, president of the Czech Republic, changed course and calls for throwing Russia out of Swift as well.
Zelensk earlier today:
“work is going on to disconnecting Russia from Swift. I hope that Hungary will be forced to support this decision.”
His website, https://www.president.gov.ua/en is knocked out at this moment.