December 15

  • December 15, 2023
  • tappanch
  • 90 Comments
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tappanch
tappanch
December 15, 2023 08:13

comment image

tappanch
tappanch
December 15, 2023 08:36

Orban blackmails the EU.

He wants to get 20 billion euros in aid in order not to veto 50 billion (mostly loan) to Ukraine by the European Union.

https://www.portfolio.hu/gazdasag/20231215/orban-viktor-a-magyar-gazdasag-unios-penz-nelkul-is-mukodik-656499

Pantanifan
Pantanifan
December 15, 2023 09:11
Reply to  tappanch

EU needs to move quickly to majority voting or at least a voting system in which Putin’s Trojan horse is unable to hold the other countries to ransom

tappanch
tappanch
December 15, 2023 10:50
Reply to  tappanch

50 billion = 33 in loans + 17 in grants

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 15, 2023 21:57
Reply to  tappanch

Orban did block the 50 billion going to Ukraine and the EU did release funds for Hungary. So that strategy did not work. But Orban did allow Ukraine’s process to continue by walking out and denouncing it .

Orban’s comment today on Radio Kossuth was “if something harms Hungary’s interests during the negotiation, I can stop it…Hungary will apply the handbrake, there should be no doubt about that.” Orban also said in that interview there will be about 75 occasions when his government can halt Ukraine’s ascension process.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 16, 2023 01:19

I think, you might perhaps underestimate the perspective of the democratic EU.
Western democracies have seen Orbán-types come and go for a long time now..
They have ascertained how easily he is bought and how easily they can twist his arm. That’s got nothing to do with narrow Hungarian conditions.
The beurocratic hurdles are the place where the EU has the upper hand – because when they stay together, time isn’t an issue – They can move very fast, if they agree to do so and legislate accordingly.
Orbán straddles his pants to the breaking-point, but has no purse to tailor the elastic much further.
In the end, the business-potential of Ukraine (regadless of the current condition) far outweighs anything Hungary can offer and he knows.that. Betting on the Russian horse, hoping Putin’s fatigue-strategy wins, only saves his ass on the short term.
His real worry, is whether to walk the plank in the EU, or escape to a like-minded sanctuary.

wolf
wolf
December 16, 2023 08:11

And the positive news is:
Now everybody in the EU knows what kind of ***expletive deleted*** O1G represents.
So the EU will not help Hungary with anything unless it and its companies will profit.
And nobody cares about the Hungarian people – it’s their own fault!

tappanch
tappanch
December 15, 2023 08:43

Military aid to Ukraine (Jan 24, 2022 to Oct 31, 2023)

US: 47%
EU countries 39%
UK+Norway+Canada: 14%

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/05/world/ukraine-money-military-aid-intl-dg/index.html

tappanch
tappanch
December 15, 2023 08:52
Reply to  tappanch

Biggest donors of aid to Ukraine, in billions of euros

Military:

US: 43.9
Germany 17.1
UK: 6.6
EU: 5.6
Norway: 3.6
Denmark: 3.5
Poland: 3.0
Netherlands: 2.5
Sweden: 2.1
Canada: 2.1

Economic:

EU: 77.1
US: 25.0
UK: 6.6
EU: 5.6
Norway: 3.6

More data:
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

tappanch
tappanch
December 15, 2023 09:09
Reply to  tappanch

“Just How Much Aid Has the U.S. Sent to Ukraine?”

Bilateral aid to Ukraine between January 24, 2022, and October 31, 2023

Weapons & equipment: $28.0
Financial: $26.4
Security Assistance: $18.3
Humanitarian: $2.7 billion

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts

tappanch
tappanch
December 15, 2023 10:47

State of the potential purchase of Budapest airport (Ferihegy)

% of ownership
Sellers vs Buyers

Sellers:
G: German AviAlliance= 55.44%
S: Singaporean Malton= 23.33%
C: Canadian pension fund Caisse de dépot et placement du Québec= 21.23%

Buyers:
H: Hungarian state
Q: Qatar
F: French Vinci

Sellers: G + S + C

Buyers:

H= 51% = 28.28+11.9+10.83
Q or F= 29% = 16.08+6.77+6.16
F or Q= 20% = 11.09+4.67+4.24

Hungary has asked and received the EU approval only for buyers H and F.

https://24.hu/fn/gazdasag/2023/12/15/repulotervasarlas-budapest-airport-katar-harmadik-vevo/

tappanch
tappanch
December 15, 2023 11:53

Hungarian authorities searched the home of the owner of the most popular independent internet portal 24.hu

They accused him of selling another of his companies “too cheaply”.

https://hvg.hu/itthon/20231215_hazkutatas_nav_varga_zoltan_central_cegcsoport

https://magyarnemzet.hu/belfold/2023/12/tobb-helyszinen-is-hazkutatast-tartott-a-nav-a-24hu-tulajdonosanak-felmilliardos-adocsalasi-botranyaban

Jan
Jan
December 16, 2023 10:23

The Viktor and his companions showed the world their inability to cooperate with democratic forces.
He was sent to the corridor as the most important vote of the week took place, a kind of a “mini-Huxit”. Of course, he will try to make trouble the whole road to membership of Ukraine, threatening with vetoes and asking for more money.
In the second most important vote, he vetoed the proposal for more help for Ukraine, more money for immigration politics, and funding to help countries in emergencies. The money for Ukraine will be settled in January by the other 26 states, and the Viktor will be out of the game. The attempt to loosen the 20 billion Euros of support that is left for a yes vote on Ukrainian money has failed.
He got 10 billion Euros, of which he must ask permission for every case he wants to spend the money.
The offer to the teachers seems to be 10% more money, way lower than the promises for if EU money arrives. To increase the wages for teachers, to reach 70% of the EU average they have permission, and part of the 10 billion is meant for that. This is just an example of how the regime seems to play games with the 10 billion.
Internal the new law for sovereignty was adopted. I do not know if this law is compatible with EU rules, but I have a guess, that this law will activate more opposition to the regime from EU countries.
If it weren’t so sad one would buy some popcorn and enjoy the developments.

wolf
wolf
December 16, 2023 11:16
Reply to  Jan

And it has become obvious for everybody that Hungary is just another of those sh*thole countries (like in Africa or South America or …) where it’s useless to try to reason with the leaders – only brute force will work and that of course means money.
Of course these countries use their powers like giving “golden passports” to criminals if they pay well but in the long run they will all be identified and treated as they should be.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 16, 2023 21:05
Reply to  wolf

How the EU plenum will deal with getting Orbán & Co away from the sphere of direct influence is legally uncharted territory. There’s no lack of smart people there and only one thing seems certain at this point: They will arrive at a more salonfähig (meaning costly) solution than poisoning, imprisonment, plane-crash, or fall from a window.

tappanch
tappanch
December 16, 2023 18:26

Hungary received about 3.9 billion euros from the European Union in 2023, in spite of the so-called “freezing of the funds”

The net money flow (estimated numbers) was:
1491 – 663 billion forints, i.e
3.9 – 1.7 = 2.2 billion euros.

https://www.portfolio.hu/unios-forrasok/20231216/ugy-sem-lett-netto-befizeto-magyarorszag-hogy-blokkoltak-az-eu-s-kifizeteseket-658021

wolf
wolf
December 17, 2023 21:08

Katakin Czeh has some harsh words on the EU giving in to an extortionist:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/17/viktor-orban-hungary-eu-ukraine-vladimir-putin

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 18, 2023 00:27
Reply to  wolf

Czeh has a very valid point.
But in the EU realm, buying off opponents for the sake of making “unanimous” decisions is an old practice.
Unfortunate for the Hungarian opposition and unfortunate for democracy as such, because Orbán stirs up issues from a much bigger pot – mixing populist geopolitical themes with EU politics.
How the EU will move and act to contain that, remains to be seen.

tappanch
tappanch
December 18, 2023 14:54

Summit of the two Qipchak dictators – Orban and Erdogan are meeting in Budapest.

The Champs-Élysées of Budapest was closed to regular trafficfor long time, because Erdogan had to arrive in Orban’s Dance Theater (i.e. his office) exactly that way.

Erdogan might also like Orban, because it was a Christian traitor named Orban who helped the Turks to take Constantinople (Istambul) in 1453.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orban

tappanch
tappanch
December 18, 2023 15:25
Reply to  tappanch

The various names of the Budapest avenue des Champs-Élysées:

1883: Radial Strasse or Sugár út
1886: Andrássy út
1950: Sztálin út
1956: Magyar Ifjúság útja (from October)
1957: Népköztársaság útja
1990: Andrássy út

Rond-point des Champs-Élysées:

1890: Körönd
1938: Hitler tér
1945: Körönd
1971: Kodály körönd

No Oktogon in Paris.

1890: Nyolcszög tér
1920: Oktogon
1936: Mussolini tér
1945: Oktogon
1950: November 7 tér
1990: Oktogon

tappanch
tappanch
December 18, 2023 15:30
Reply to  tappanch

Orban is Erdogan’s chauffeur:

comment image

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 18, 2023 19:03
Reply to  tappanch

Getting lost together, may help..

Guided-Tour
Theestampe
Theestampe
December 19, 2023 16:24
Reply to  tappanch

What make is that car? Is it Chinese? I don’t recognise the logo on the hood.

tappanch
tappanch
December 19, 2023 16:52
Reply to  Theestampe

The electric car is Turkish made. TOGG T10X. They plan to sell it in Europe in 2024.

In return, Orban gave Erdogan a horse.

https://telex.hu/belfold/2023/12/18/orban-viktor-torok-elektromos-autoban-furikazza-erdogant-budapesten

wolf
wolf
December 19, 2023 17:08
Reply to  Theestampe

With a price of probably 50 000€ this car might become another status symbol fpr Fidesz honchos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togg_T10X
The German Auto Motor und Sport tested it, sounds good. But the long term quality/costs?

Ferenc
December 25, 2023 10:14
Reply to  tappanch

I took a wrong turn off of true democracy
I lied 13 years I couldn’t find the way back
Hit a lonely stretch, must be losing my touch,
I was out of my depth
… 
I took a wrong turn, I took a wrong turn
I hit a LONELY STRETCH… 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chTpAiuVlTI

wolf
wolf
December 25, 2023 15:37
Reply to  Ferenc

Crazy coincidence!
This song by the Australian group The Triffids – named after one of my favourite Science Fiction novels: Day of the Triffids …
Happy holidays, everybody, wherever you are right now!

tappanch
tappanch
December 18, 2023 22:44

Incredibly, the EU leaders did not have a plan B for December 14 in the case of an Orban veto !

Ukraine has to wait another one and a half months for the funds (and weapons).

The next EU meeting is called only for February 1, 2024.

The Ukrainians are running low in ammunition and in men in the front line.

I fully expect a big Russian offensive in late December, early January.

Putin wants to increase the size of the occupied territories significantly,
occupy Zaporozhie town and perhaps Dnipro(petrovsk) and Kharkiv as well.

His further aim is to grab Odessa and make rump Ukraine landlocked.

tappanch
tappanch
December 18, 2023 22:57

Orban government will throw money at widening route 76 at Zalaegerszeg.

A new record: they will give 24,000 euros for every meter.

(400 billion forints for 44 km)

https://24.hu/belfold/2023/12/18/magyarorszag-autopalya-rekord-ar-lazar-janos/

tappanch
tappanch
December 18, 2023 23:02

The regime does not care about the health of its citizens.

Nobody over 18 can get the Covid vaccine against the omicron variant.

Children under 18 can get it only at one place in Budapest, at the Heim Children’s hospital.

tappanch
tappanch
December 18, 2023 23:13

Putin’s & Orban’s friend Vucic bussed in 40,000 people from Bosnia in order to win the vote in Belgrade.

They were given fictitious addresses in the town. These Bosnian Serbs voted in a football stadium.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/18/serbia-election-results-vucic-opposition-protest/11e70b22-9d8d-11ee-9e0f-972979a6c22b_story.html

tappanch
tappanch
December 18, 2023 23:35

Observed illegal immigration
(US: “encounters”, formerly called “apprehensions”).

US
[Oct 2022, Sep 2023] = 2,476,000

EU
[Jan1 2023, Dec 17 2023] = 257,000

Italy: 154,000
Spain: 52,000
Greece: 45,000
Cyprus: 6,000

Source:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters
https://data.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean

tappanch
tappanch
December 19, 2023 04:25

Ursula’s largess, or rather
details of the 10 billion euro rain of money from the EU.

Below are the labels of claiming chunks of this money pot.

“Intelligent Hungary” = 317 billion HUF
“Hi-tech and green transformation” = 164 billion
“Hungary connected” = 92 billion
“Digital knowledge” = 190 bilion

“Development of enterprises” = 888 billion
“Research, development, innovation” = 767 billion
“Sustainable work power” = 264 billion
“Guarantee for youth” = 197 billion
“Higher education, vocational education” = 177 billion forints.

Most money will flow to Orban-created oligarchs, privatized-for-free universities , etc.

https://www.portfolio.hu/unios-forrasok/20231218/megnyilnak-a-brusszeli-penzcsapok-ezekre-a-palyazatokra-lehet-hamarosan-lecsapni-658269

https://viacredit.hu/blog/20231020/palyazati-domping-varhato-forraskeretek-a-dimop-plusz-es-ginop-plusz-programokban

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 19, 2023 23:07
Reply to  tappanch

Please don’t confuse the EU with a Dictatorship!
Several (very) big things are in the mold right now – and Hungary is not important in that respect, but Orbán does his best to make it look as if.
The Ukraine negotiations herald a shift in the balance of Eastern EU. Poland sides with that, but Orbán doesnt like cameras turning away from him, so he acts out as much as he can, but in the end, he knows that the focus will be on Ukraine and Poland.
The EU can afford buying off a petty dictator, whose hands are tied.

tappanch
tappanch
December 20, 2023 04:20

#1
The ruling of the Colorado Supreme Court disqualifying Trump from running for the presidency in 2024.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/19/politics/read-colorado-supreme-court-ruling-trump-2024-ballot-14th-amendment/index.html

The main argument starts on page 70:

“The Presidency Is an Office Under the United States”

U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3.

“No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold ANY OFFICE, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath”

#2

By the way, Orban took an oath in May 2010 to uphold the Hungarian Constitution, then had it abolished with his party a year later.

Therefore his regime has been unconstitutional since January 1, 2012.

tappanch
tappanch
December 20, 2023 04:46
Reply to  tappanch

On 23 January 2016, presidential candidate Donald Trump stated the following during a campaign rally in Iowa:

“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.”

Jan
Jan
December 20, 2023 08:53

This Telex article describes the illegal immigration from Hungary to Slovakia before and after the Slovakian election with Vico as winner.
After the elections, immigration stopped.
Some think the Hungarian regime may have had a hand in the increased immigration from spring 2023 to October 2023.
Telex: Egyszerűen eltűntek a migránsok, mintha nem is lettek volna

Jan
Jan
December 21, 2023 09:59

This comment describes the problems one gets when we don’t stop evil. It paints a dark future for the EU when politicians avoid removing the rotten apple in the basket.

Is Europe Broken? by Jan-Werner Mueller – Project Syndicate (project-syndicate.org)

wolf
wolf
December 21, 2023 11:44
Reply to  Jan

Yes, as Mr Mueller says:
Ironically, that outcome further reinforces arguments against European enlargement. After all, as the Hungarian government has demonstrated for all the world to see, once you are inside the European club, it seems nobody can force you to abide by the club’s rules.
So his friends in Serbia etc won’t be happy – no sane person in the EU wants them because they are similar to O.

Pantanifan
Pantanifan
December 21, 2023 13:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ackb-fdVUs4
this well-informed UK podcast covers Orban and Vukovic, starting at 35:51…

wolf
wolf
December 21, 2023 15:24

Do you get the joke?
Reported:
The last government info meeting of the year was held today, and as in previous years, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán joined the event, holding an international press conference to asses 2023, and outline the government’s plans for next year.
https://hungarytoday.hu/political-changes-expected-after-the-ep-elections-says-prime-minister/
Also quite funny:
As he noted, the government wants to implement a 32.2 percent wage increase in the three-year wage improvement program from January 1, 2024, meaning that it will be visible in February salaries.
Of course this will only be possible if the EU pays for this …

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 21, 2023 16:52
Reply to  wolf

Orbán’s KoolAid-party probably convinces the faithful followers of “The Golden Era”.
He also said that the Russian invasion in Ukraine “is not a war”.

tappanch
tappanch
December 22, 2023 00:30

The Orban government is truly an agent of the Russian secret services.

They paid about $1 million to Poroshenko so he would come to Hungary, meet Orban and divide Ukraine.

https://444.hu/2023/12/21/az-ukran-korrupciomegelozesi-ugynokseg-azt-allitja-az-orban-kormany-tobb-szaz-millio-forintot-utalt-a-volt-ukran-elnoknek

wolf
wolf
December 22, 2023 08:07

Again, funny in a way.
Hungary’s leader was whining at his press conference about the West discriminating against Trump, AfD, PIS etc – while many Hungarian media were not even allowed to send representatives to “his” conference!
https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/orban-bemaengelt-sonderbare-dinge-in-der-westlichen-demokratischen-welt-a-2dd944ea-5b7c-4d34-a126-4ff0d62cd6cf
Maybe someone dinds this in English?

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 22, 2023 18:05
Reply to  wolf

The ruling by the Colorado Supreme Court is complex and 133 pages long. https://www.courts.state.co.us/Courts/Supreme_Court/Case_Announcements/Files/2023/6D478012_19_23.pdf While it would seem simple that the US Supreme Court will overturn the decision based on an appeal from Trump its more complex than that.

Under US law state supreme courts cannot have decisions relating state laws exclusive to their laws overturned by the Federal Supreme Court. Only in cases of contradictions of state and federal law can the US Supreme Court overturn and interpretation of Colorado state law.

The Colorado Supreme Court is sovereign relating to interpretation of Colorado State law except in that situation of contradiction discussed above. Orban understands none of that.

So unlike in the European system where regional units of government are part of fully national governments, in the US state governments have real power and sovereignty.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 22, 2023 18:08

As as retired state governmental lobbyist I am very interested how the Republican majority of the US Supreme Court will come to the rescue of Trump.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 22, 2023 19:39

Then, supposing that the US Supreme Court faces a choice of openly siding with the former President vs. respecting the sovereignty of a State Supreme Court, as a real test of loyalty, wouldn’t be too far off?

tappanch
tappanch
December 22, 2023 21:28

The solution of the Colorado Supreme Court is elegant and simple.

#1 Lower court established that Trump is an insurrectionist

#2 The Presidency Is an Office Under the United States,

Therefore,
by U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3.,
Trump cannot be on the ballot for presidency in Colorado.

—–

In my opinion, the most likely scenario by the US Supreme Court is the following.

They do not make a judgement before January 4. (They declined to expedite Jack Smith’s case today as well, giving a victory to Trump)

So Trump will not be on the Colorado ballot. But Trump would lose Colorado in any case.

But the other states will not have the automatic right to drop Trump !

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 22, 2023 23:14
Reply to  tappanch

Well yet another complexity is that Trump has never been convicted of an act of insurrection by any court federal or state.

The relevant part of the constitution actually does not require to be prohibited from holding office to be convicted of insurrection. Only that Trump engaged in the act of insurrection but not how that determination was made . This was discussed in this research document for members of Congress https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/lsb/lsb10569 .

It is also possible even some Republicans on the Supreme Court may want to be done with Trump and go over to the Democrats on the court and let the decision stand.

If the case stands Trump could be quickly disqualified by numerous democrat majority Supreme Courts actually making it impossible for Trump to be elected. That would push Trump supporters to levels of insanity I suspect.

Jan
Jan
December 24, 2023 09:15

Happy holidays to everyone.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 24, 2023 13:45
Reply to  Jan

Thanks Jan, I will make one of my semiannual pilgrimages to my family Hungarian Catholic Church here in Chicago tonight. Last night some Hungarian speakers from Chicago came to our home for dinner. My wife Judy who is mixed Native American and Old English who speaks near zero Hungarian but really was nice to help with our little gathering.

Not surprisingly there was some lamenting over Orban’s new laws being imposed. One of our guests is a dual national and is contemplating giving up Hungarian citizenship by submitting this form https://washington.mfa.gov.hu/asset/view/68637/lemondas_hu_allampolgarsagrol2013.pdf.

I am not a dual national, but I did read the form and wondered if by submitting it and visiting Hungary as a U.S. citizen you were opening yourself up for trouble under the National Sovereignty Protection Act.

Kocsis, the Fidesz faction leader in the parliament who proposed the law, said in September that, among others, he wanted to target “left-wing journalists (…) serving the interests of American democratic dollar billionaires or multinationals in Brussels.” It could also target any U.S. national visiting Hungary who is less than loyal to Orban. I am not sure I agree with the US State Department’s statement https://www.state.gov/concern-with-hungarys-sovereign-defense-authority-law/ that sees it impacting Hungarian citizens and does not mention US nationals.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 25, 2023 17:05

Last night after Christmas Eve mass one of my friends who went to Saturday Hungarian language school with me as a child said to me in hushed tones az új törvény nagyon rossz, le kell beszélnünk a Fidesznicket. Yes supporters of Hungarian democracy are even afraid of Orban in church!

Phil S. Stine
Phil S. Stine
December 24, 2023 15:16

Merry Christmas folks ….

Ferenc
December 25, 2023 10:26

Merry Christmas to you all here!
Boldog Karácsonyt mindenkinek itt! 

wolf
wolf
December 25, 2023 15:45
wolf
wolf
December 25, 2023 19:38

Don’t remember whether we’ve seen this before. An article – though almost five years old still relevant and interesting to read:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hnsgrassegger/george-soros-conspiracy-finkelstein-birnbaum-orban-netanyahu

Ferenc
December 25, 2023 23:12
Reply to  wolf

I remember that article as originally published in a Swiss magazine, unfortunately it was behind a paywall. 
Nevertheless I managed then to get a readable copy, which I send to our dear Eva.
She made a post about it “The Genesis of Orbans anti-Soros Campaign” [2019.Jan.15]

Noticed that the HS archive is currenrly not working, so herewith Eva’s original post as archived at the “Wayback Machine” – https://web.archive.org/web/20190118015023/https://hungarianspectrum.org/2019/01/15/the-genesis-of-orbans-anti-soros-campaign/

Reader
Reader
December 27, 2023 15:22

All the best to everyone on this blog, let’s hope for a better 2024.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 28, 2023 23:06

All the best greetings to the HN-readers from me!
Let’s continue in the coming time, as independent voices, committed to pointing out the differences between democracy and democrature.

Viktor Orbán has shown the world an example of abusing democracy, by gaining power through an election, and consequently manipulating the basis for qualified legislation for his own advantage, to the extent of absolute control. This happened in Hungary.

Hungary
Ferenc
December 29, 2023 07:59

Podcast “The Rest Is Politics” [UK, former Labour&Conservative]
2023.Dec.20, a.o. about the myghti lidur [starting about 30min in], nothing new for most here I think, but interesting nevertheless
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/how-labour-should-fight-the-election-taking-on/id1611374685?i=1000639116906

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 29, 2023 21:30
Reply to  Ferenc

The podcasters are quite astute. But they don’t take into account the extent of Far-Right, bought influence, in minor nationalist parties in Europe.
They will come forward in defense of Orbán, as the lines draw up, in return for the funding.
Back in 2018, several EU national conservatives spoke up in favor of Orbán, saying he defended European values and how was a legitimate, democratically elected leader..

Last edited 2 months ago by Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 30, 2023 00:30

The cyber world is the ultimate dark challenge to democracy.
Physical presence has nothing to do with digitally projected representation, but most people don’t recognize the difference.

Last edited 2 months ago by Michael Detreköy
wolf
wolf
December 29, 2023 11:31

Funny news:
Insight Hungary (444)reports that one reason for the PISsers loss to D Tusk was that they had asked Hábony and his ***expletive deleted*** for strategical help!
Orván’s spin doctor helped Law and Justice before they lost the elections

Ferenc
December 30, 2023 11:39

Question to Wolf [but others are of course free to reply]
In Russia there seem to be [some] women starting to complain about Putin’s Special Operation [=War]. Quite some start asking publically when their men and sons can return home, for leave of end of their “works” for PSO[=W]. The men and boys are too long away from their families and loved ones; and for what reason really…
I started wondering how this was during 1939-45 in Germany, were there developments under women in their opinion during WW2 , i.e.complaining that their men and boys were too long away from family and home [some never returning at all…]

Last edited 2 months ago by Ferenc
Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 30, 2023 13:07
Reply to  Ferenc

The protesting women in Russia must be cause for some concern by Putin, or he probably wouldn’t bother to use them in his propaganda.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/25/russia-military-wives-mothers-protest-against-putin-war-ukraine-troops-female

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 30, 2023 14:26

Yes the Washington Post’s primary reporter on the Russian opposition Robyn Dixon has made a big deal about the wives and mothers’ opposition to the Russian war in Ukraine.

But she and all her fellow Post reporters (including freelance reporters) fled Moscow after Putin’s FSB arrested Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich
and they are now in Lativa. Dixon is aware that Putin has imposed full scale Stalinist repression on opposition to the war and her contacts with opposition figures were enough for her to be locked up.

Putin is implementing his repression by increments as needed.

Orban is obvious doing the same thing in Hungary with the new laws. The EU, NATO, and the USA are fully aware of this but avoiding dealing with it simultaneously.

Hopefully the Fidesz operatives here in the USA will be eventually prosecuted for being unregistered foreign agents of Hungary pursuant to the U.S. Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) was enacted in 1938.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 30, 2023 14:31

The Fidesz operatives in Cleveland, New York, Chicago, and Washington DC are pretty well known and are receiving funding from Fidesz using cultural covers or as part of US based conservative groups.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 30, 2023 19:53

There can be little doubt about the priority on propaganda, in the Fidesz regime. In my opinion, that holds true for the entire Right-National movement, across the globe.
The promoting of compulsive liars and fantasists into the front lines of right-wing media proves that beyond discussion, I think.
But how to counter media madness remains a challenge unanswered.
For every lie and allegation, several points are scored with voters, while reality sits with the burdon of proof, which is slow and late.
If I could collect a dime for each time I hear someone say stuff, based on heresay and popular conspiracy theories, I would be very rich.
If only media would treat the political cult-leaders with proper questioning and stubbornness, they ,at least, would have to answer.

wolf
wolf
December 30, 2023 15:03
Reply to  Ferenc

Well, this might not be a typical story, but …
I’ve probably written about it before.
My father came to Germany in 1935 from his home near Danzig (Polish Gdansk) because he was not happy with the developments there, his police job and joined the German army. Hitler was asking around and making good offers so my father became a Feldwebel (sergeant) in 1938 and later participated in the several Blitzkriegs.
He also met a nice Schwab girl and in early 1939 he “knew” that something big was coming and asked her to marry him. Afaik he fought in Czechoslovakia and in France but came home every few months.
This also happened after the war in Russia started because he had become an officer then.
So he and his wife were kind of lucky compared to regular soldiers which often didn’t see their wives and family for a long time.
It got worse when the war against Russia started but even then he had holidays and went home maybe once a year – that was when I was conceived (summer of 42) as a souvenir to his wife from him because he knew that he might stay or die somewhere in Russia – because at that time it was already clear to him that the war was lost.
He was lucky in a way to be hit by a shrapnel and sent home in late 1944 -one of my uncles was not so lucky and disappeared without a trace.
We did not talk much about the war, my parents told me some anecdotes however.

Ferenc
December 30, 2023 15:40
Reply to  wolf

Thanks Wolf for your personal reply.
Do you know if there were ever any serious protests in Nazi-Germany by women? Are there anywhere reports/article/books about this?

wolf
wolf
December 30, 2023 20:02
Reply to  Ferenc

Among the “White Rose” students were the Stoll siblings eg – which of course were executed by the Nazi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_and_Sophie_Scholl
Because of those harsh reactions most people were too afraid to openly protest against the Nazis.
If you want more info on those horrible actions search for Roland Freisler known as the killer judge.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 30, 2023 21:56
Reply to  wolf

There are many accounts of resistance in Nazi-Germany.
Unfortunately, the fanaticism of the general public made any public effect irrelevant.

Ferenc
December 31, 2023 01:22
Reply to  wolf

Thanks for the link, will “investigate” [or just surf] from there.
At first look this caught my attention, the Geschwister-Scholl-Preis [“Scholl siblings” Prize] – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschwister-Scholl-Preis

Didn’t notice any Hungarian winners so far…
What about nominating our dear Eva for this prize???

PS: is the HS archive really down or only temporary unavailable?

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 31, 2023 18:05
Reply to  Ferenc
Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 30, 2023 15:00

This Magyar Nemzet article https://magyarnemzet.hu/belfold/2023/12/soros-legfontosabb-emberei-4-evelyn-farkas also targeted Eva’s old friend Charles Gati basically as a U.S. operative trying to undermine the Fidesz goverment. Really all of us who commented on Eva’s blog Hungarian Spectrum are likely on lists being created by Orban’s police agencies.

Ferenc
December 30, 2023 15:38

Commenters on HS listed by OV’s 1-Party-State police agencies?
Well that sounds as if the mygthi lidur is afraid of words by others, thinking about this makes me actually proud!
BUT if possible somehow, it should be investigated I think, anybody any [bad or proud…] experience with this?

Theestampe
Theestampe
December 30, 2023 18:53
Reply to  Ferenc

Let alone people who at least for some don’t even live in HU. If this can reassure OV, most of us are just passive spectators.

Like most of the Hungarians, come to think of it.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 31, 2023 16:46
Reply to  Ferenc

Eva was truly hated by Fidez supporters in the USA. Her research skills were very high and she would not easily give up on proving Orban’s corruption when she smelled a rat in a story she read in the Hungarian media.

Once Eva received a grant from Soros for her work on the Hungarian Spectrum and acknowledged it she effectively became not an eccentric 56er but a US agent.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 31, 2023 18:18

Magyar Nemzet’s attack article today https://magyarnemzet.hu/belfold/2023/12/soros-legfontosabb-emberei-5-wesley-clark#google_vignette is targeting a fellow retired U.S. Army officer and Vietnam veteran General Wesley Clark. He is named as one of the key Soros agents and enemy of Hungary.

General Clark served with honor as a combat officer in Vietnam before I did (he went to Vietnam in January 1970 I went in early 1972) and he was severely wounded in a firefight yet continued to command.

General Clark led NATO and after his retirement became a public supporter of the Democratic Party and outspoken opponent of Trump. General Clark ran as a Democratic presidential candidate in 2004. I was more typical of retired Army officers in that I became a Republican but abandoned the GOP with the rise of Trump.

To this day I disagree with some General Clark about some of his comments in the media in particular Clark’s endorsement of President Biden’s quick exit from Afghanistan, but the Magyar Nemzet claims Clark became “konzul” to Péter Márki-Zay in his campaign against Orban. I have been searching for comments from General Clark on Péter Márki-Zay, but so far have found none. I know MZP during his campaign against Orban visited with NATO officials in Brussels and met with MEPs – including Manfred Weber, leader of the European parliamentary grouping of centre-right parties the European People’s Party (EPP) but really I can find no evidence of General Clark acting as an adviser to MZP.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
December 31, 2023 21:09

I found a report on a meeting between General Clark and MZP. It is discussed in this article https://hungarytoday.hu/marki-zay-hungarian-troops-ukraine-wesley-clark/. The article states: “In his post, Márki-Zay said Clark had also brought up that the Western world sees Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán as Putin’s “puppet.” According to the post, Clark argued that Orbán’s back and forth maneuvering between Russia and the West is an attempt to weaken Hungary’s transatlantic and European ties.
Márki-Zay said the neighboring war is an affirmation of his stance that the April 3rd election is a decision between the East and the West, either “the Hungarian Putin or Europe,” the wrong or the right side of history.”

There was no ongoing consulting work going on between General Clark and MZP from what I can see.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
December 31, 2023 22:10

Clark, being a semi-official Nato Ambassador, at this point, must have taken the job of improving relations with Hungary seriously and of course a good relation with MZP would have priority..
Any alliance with Orbán was already highly questionable, to say the least, so naturally, another horse to bet on would be a potential asset.
In my (northern) end of Nato-Europe, Hungarian forces are as close to being a potential enemy as possible. They proved themselves counter productive and poorly qualified in Nato excercises, lacking in training and courage and serve as remote reserves by now.

Orbán made no secret of his priorities – He simply awaits a tilt of the global power balance, to where the overpolpulated regions follow China’s lead.
Russia is part of the authoritarian equation, so he supports them.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
January 1, 2024 14:19

Of course to ring in the new year team Orban put yet another bad US citizen on the list of targeted Soros agents see https://magyarnemzet.hu/belfold/2024/01/soros-legfontosabb-emberei-6-anne-applebaum .

Really one has to wonder if Anne Applebaum could be charged under the new laws if she reported from Hungary?

wolf
wolf
January 1, 2024 20:05

On George Lazar’s facebook page you’ll find a scathing comment on this latest Fidesz idiocy:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=508220147
Unbelievable!
He also reports with many details on the “Hungarian Boy Scout Association” which combines fascist ideas of the arrowcross with other fascust ideas – horrible!

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
January 1, 2024 20:17
Reply to  wolf

Yes the same Hungarian scouts still exist in the USA. There is one troop in a Chicago suburb that meets at a reformed church as I recall.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
January 1, 2024 21:40

Indoctrination of emmigrant youth seems a desperate measure, unless the political climate in the US has groomed enough young people for extremism – like it did in the days of McCarthyism, not too long ago.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
January 2, 2024 16:45

By the way as a child I was a member of the Külföldi Magyar Cserkészszövetség (Hungarian Scout Association in Exteris). Our scout master back then was likely a former Arrow Cross member.

When I was commissioned US Army officer in Vietnam I received many letters from Hungarian American scouts . Of course after participating in the US invasions of both Panama and Grenada I had an ideological apithany. But in 2004 when the Book “Vietnam Chronicles The Abrams Tapes 1968-1972” Texas Tech University Press was published I had to question everything about my own military career.

My father and grandfather both were anticommunists so it’s not surprising the path I went down.

Ferenc
January 1, 2024 23:13

Really one has to wonder if Anne Applebaum could be charged under the new laws if she reported from Hungary?

Well she could test it by going there and keep reporting…
And then somebody else could translate her reports into Hungarian and publish locally, preferably on both paper and in digital format…

PS: if I had time and means, I think I would have voluntered…

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
January 2, 2024 00:40
Reply to  Ferenc

The US media-scene is the perfect testing ground for Orbán’s brand of extremism.
Hungary is lost, media-wise, but if you think Hungarians would consider an active stance, publishing alternative views would be a start.