Well now the f-ing Russians may have opened the gates of hell with a missile attack on Polish soil. The reports in Hungarian media indicate two Polish civilians were killed when a grain elevator was hit, here in the USA that has not yet been reported, only that Russian missiles are confirmed to have hit Poland.
Since Poland is a NATO nation with US armed forces near the Ukrainian border this is incredibly dangerous.
PLN/EUR has decreased only by 1% so far.
This is either an accident, or Putin might test Biden’s reaction.
Now CNN in the USA is confirming two Poles killed in the Russian attack.
Five hours ago:
“Mass launch of Kh-101 missiles [against Ukraine] from TU-95 [planes] from the Volgograd-Astrakhan area, probably in two waves”
President Biden is making a big mistake in not carrying out a retaliatory attack against the Russian forces that launched the missiles. The online possible reason for not doing so would be botched missile interception by the Ukrainians.
If US bombed the Russian airports in that area (Bashkiria included), Putin would threaten with using his hypersonic nuclear missiles.
Poland just invoked article 4 (consultation) of the NATO charter.
I am not sure about Bashkiria now. The Russian planes with the missiles could have taken off from behind the Urals. I am tracking something.
Today, Putin (or, rather the Russian Academy of Sciences) awarded occupied Melitopol and Mariupol with the honorific title
«Город воинской славы» (Town of military glory)
The green line connects the Polish and Ukrainian electric networks.
The black circle is where the attack occurred.
What are Putin’s war aims?
He stated in his previous talks that he wanted the US to withdraw from Europe. Trump would have done this for him “free of war”, but Trump lost in 2020.
That sounds plausible … I remember reading that there was a meeting with Trump, Lavrov and another without a findable recording … that fueled speculation as to what was discussed there … Trump and Putin what can go wrong?
If I remember correctly, the meeting was at Trump Tower.
Trump Tower may change ownership sooner than expected.
Apparently the leading NATO nations are meeting right now in Indonesia in a meeting convened by Biden over the missile attack on Poland. Even Orban is nervous, there was a meeting of Hungary’s defense council about the missile attack.
President Biden just came out of the closed door meeting and said it is unlikely a missile that landed in eastern Poland was fired from Russia. The investigation is ongoing. No nuclear war for now and I can go walk out Siberian Huskies without fear of incineration. But the missile came from some where?
President Biden probably meant that these particular Russian missiles had been fired from Belarus.
Their purpose was to sever the link between the Polish and Ukrainian power grids. They missed a few miles.
Dobrotvirska TPP (Ukraine) – Zamosc (Poland) power line.
Orbán realizes that, given the quantities of Russian missiles fired from afar or high altitude, the chances of getting hit by a few “strays” can easily be explained as accidental incidents. A classic “colatteral” Hybrid warfare strategy. It works well for inciting feelings of insecurity. In Russia, it works for blown-up propaganda purposes, proving the vulnerability of Nato countries – especially when demands for retaliation aren’t acknowledged by the alliance.
Now that the missile that went astray has been identified as Ukrainian, Orbán and the pro Putinist wing have been dealt a propaganda joker.
Whether they actually have the guts to go more against their Nato allies on supplying the Ukrainian air defenses, will be interesting to see. And if Russian propaganda still dominates govt. controlled media, the psycological hybrid warfare will act to weaken Hungarian decisions even further.
A short while after the Polish civilians were killed by what NATO now believes was a Ukrainian missile defending against Russian strikes President Zelensky made a recorded statement that included this: “Hitting NATO territory with missiles. … This is a Russian missile attack on collective security! This is a really significant escalation. Action is needed,”
It is unknown if when Zelensky made that statement if he was aware Ukrainian air defenses had launched interceptor missiles in proximity to the Polish border. That also needs to be investigated.
I am not in disagreement with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg when he stated, “This is not Ukraine’s fault, Russia bears the ultimate responsibility.” But it is also clear President Zelensky showed no restraint in his early comments.
I am fairly sure there will be Republican isolationists in US Congress, and maybe even some members of the Democrats progressive caucus in Congress that will point to Zelensky’s impetuous comments as reason to at least restrain longer distance weapon from being provided to Ukraine. If not attempting to force a peace deal on Ukraine.
I also suspect Fidesz propagandists will point to Zelensky’s comments to show the wisdom of Orban’s peace discussions ideas. Zelensky thinks about media impact of his comments and he is skilled in that. But Zelensky’s early comments could have helped to create a military conflict between Russia and NATO that could have ended very badly for all of Europe.
I admit I too was highly aggravated by the reports of Russian missiles hitting Poland. Here in Chicago with our large Polish population, 24 hour Polish language radio and TV there were pretty much calls for a NATO strike against Russia.
Polvision which broadcasts in Chicago even aired a documentary on the joint Russian Nazis invasion of Poland of September 17, 1939. It discussed how the Russians murdered in the Katyn massacre nearly 22,000 Polish military officers and intelligentsia prisoners of war carried out by the Soviet Union, specifically the NKVD (“People’s Commissariat for Internal Affairs”, the Soviet secret police) in April and May 1940. It was closed captioned in English and I sent a link by an old Polish American friend and fellow US Army veteran who recommended I watch it.
Honestly this article https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/16/poland-blast-what-do-we-know-about-the-missile-explosion-near-the-ukrainian-border is better than anything I have seen in the US media in the last 24 hours.
Gergely Gulyás who works in Orban’s office has already used Zelensky’s early statements to support Fidesz policy on the war. He said on ATV not long ago “The Ukrainians are responsible for the fact that the Ukrainian president was not responsible, he immediately accused the Russians of what they committed.” (My translation)
I think that; ” … the Ukrainian president was irresponsible, …. ” makes more sense.
Did the statements in Hungarian use “felelőtlen” or “nem felelős” ?
I agree that Zelensky’s early statement was irresponsible, but for Gulyás úr to then immediately accuse the Ukrainians of having done it , is a bit pot/ kettle black.
“Russia has used S-300 systems to attack ground targets. At the same time, Ukraine actively uses the same system for air defence purposes. ”
S-300 has numerous versions. For instance, ‘S-300V4 missiles have a range of 400 km at Mach 7.5 or a range of 350 km at Mach 9′
But Przewodów is only 80 km from the Belarus border ….
So the missile could have been fired by Russia from Belarus, but NATO is disinclined to investigate this incident further.
Apparently the director of the CIA was at the US embassy in Kyiv when the Polish civilians were killed see https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/16/cia-director-burns-kyiv-missile-attack/ he did have direct discussions with Zelensky according to what I read. Obviously those discussions are highly classified and will not be discussed.
And we can be fairly sure that the official communication goes according to plan. Giving the impression of internal disagreement is a clever trick.
Yesterday was a full on day for us, my wife’s first day of physio after a reverse shoulder replacement, and I had a few medical issues to sort out, (I think I was bitten by a spider) so I didn’t catch up the latest news after breakfast. Wasn’t till mid afternoon (Sydney time) on the way home when my wife tells me that news of the missile strike in Poland (was on the early morning radio news).
Bloody marvelous; there goes our Norwegian postal boat trip from Bergen to the Russian border and back (ticking of their Northern Lights from the bucket list), followed by a Spain-Portugal road trip … the bastard is going to blow it all up.
Tried to pump my wife for more details but apparently the report she heard didn’t say much more than missiles had hit a farm inside Poland. Tried to nut out possible scenarios the rest of the way home and came up with these:
1. Russians did it by accident because they are incompetent, and their equipment is as reliable as a Zhiguli (Lada) or my soviet watch.
2. Remnants of Russian missile, hit by Ukrainian anti missile defense, or Ukrainian the anti-missile missing it’s target and landing in Poland.
3. Russians did it to test the waters … if NATO does nothing but huff and puff when a member country is hit, then it (NATO) will do nothing regardless what the Russian orcs do to or in Ukraine.
4. Ukrainians false flag operation, in an attempt to draw NATO (directly) into the war.
Number one being the most likely, with decreasing probability as you work down the list.
It seems #2 has firmed into favourite overnight.
Orbán was in Belgrade and declared again that he is fighting for Serbia joining the EU as soon as possible.
Seems he doesn’t realize that his friendship makes most EU governments unlikely to want Serbia in – they’d rather want Hungary out and join Serbia.
Orbán serves primarily as an official Kosovo-denier diversion.
Steadily mounting tension between Serbia and Kosovo takes up most of the attention of the EU. The Serbs badly need promotion of a more civilized image.
Pekarová and Vystrčil boycotted the V4 meeting. They don’t want to sit at the same table as the Hungarians 😀 oh
The Fidesz propaganda department will be busy cooking up an edible story on this fiasco.
There was no goulash only żurek so we canceled … 🙂
“The European Union’s executive is on track to unblocking billions of euros in funds for Hungary this year after Prime Minister Viktor Orban bowed to pressure from the bloc over democratic checks and balances, EU sources said.
At stake is up to 14.7 billion euros ($15.3 billion), or nearly 10% of Hungary’s estimated 2022 GDP, with any approval conditional on Orban continuing to improve the independence of the judiciary and anti-corruption safeguards, the sources said.
They noted a sense of pride at the European Commission for winning what they see as major concessions from Orban now that Hungary’s ailing economy has forced the self-styled illiberal crusader to seek an accommodation with the EU.”
Are the eurocrats stupid or corrupt ?
Press conference by the EU Parliamentary committee: do not give the money to Orban.
Unnamed sources in the EU executive to Reuters:
we shall give the money to Orban.
A couple of interesting posts on independent MP Hadházy Ákos’ facebook page today (my translation and I have shortened his posts):
1) A Hungarian-IRANIAN business conference is being held at Kempinski Hotel today, with the participation of Szijjártó Péter and the Iranian Trade Minister. I found it absurd, so went to have a look and see whether it was a joke – it wasn’t. As an MP, I wanted to have a listen to what was being discussed, but after some confusion I was told that because I didn’t register in advance, I couldn’t attend. I hadn’t seen it advertised in advance so obviously the wonderful Iranian business opportunities are only available to “reliable comrades”.
– He then mentions the brutal repression of Iranian citizens in recent weeks and the Iranian government’s supply of drones to Russia, speculating that because the Ukrainians had found “western components” in these military drones, it’s possible that they were purchased at conferences like this one…
Hadházy facebook post:
2) The recently resigned Minister of Innovation and Technology Palkovics gave an interesting speech, a few weeks ago. The video link is available on Hadhazy’s facebook page, the audio quality is poor but there are Hungarian subtitles if anyone’s interested…
Palkovics admits that MOL contacted his ministry with a business idea for a long-term project (30 years), the Ministry accepted the MOL proposal for an exclusive public procurement tender for MOL to acquire a 35-year concession for ALL WASTE MANAGEMENT activities (excluding thousands of companies).
In other words, a private company decided it wanted to get involved in a new line of business and used its influence with the government to acquire the exclusive license.
Today the Washington Post ran this article https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/17/house-republicans-biden-ukraine-china/. Now that President Zelensky is militantly denying the joint opinion of the Polish government, NATO, and the US government that it was one or possibly two Ukrainian interceptor missiles that hit Poland and wants to conduct his own investigation on ground in Poland there is plenty for the Republican majority in the US House of Representatives the conduct public hearings on.
I suspect one thing that will happen is that General Mark A. Milley the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff will testify before Congress on his and the Joint Chiefs’ analysis as the Washington Post stated it yesterday:
“… that the approaching seasonal shift, when pace of combat is expected to slow, could provide “a window” to a political solution — as pushing Russia out of Ukraine completely would be “a very difficult task,” while the likelihood of Russia defeating Ukraine “is close to zero.” Having been trained similarly to General Milley I agree with his overall assessment, but admit most of us with military training believed the Russians would take Kyiv early in the war and collectively we overestimated the abilities of the Russians.
I am sure several Republicans Congressmen and possibly members the House Democratic Progressive caucus will ask variations on the big question – is it possible with increased aid to Ukraine and even more advanced weapons systems that the Ukrainians can militarily defeat the Russians over a defined period of time?
My guess is General Milley will say basically no. State Department officials and National Security officials like Jake Sullivan will be called on whether they agree with General Milley. Then the think tanks will come in to testify to this issue, and some will agree with the idea that if the USA provided 18 to 20 billion in aid a year along with high levels of military aid from NATO allies over a prolonged period (a time frame that will be debated surely) victory is possible.
Of course other think tanks will argue that even with a prolonged military aid they believe a military victory by Ukrainian forces over Russia is not possible without direct NATO involvement and possible direct conflict with Russia itself. Then President Biden’s repeated references to Armageddon will be invoked. Politically its not pretty.
Team Orban will argue that his hidden pro-Russian stance presented as a peace stance was correct. His absolute brilliance will be obvious to all supporters of Fidesz. The idea of Orban yet gloating in the media is pretty disturbing to me to say the least.
“the approaching seasonal shift, when pace of combat is expected to slow, could provide “a window” to a political solution — as pushing Russia out of Ukraine completely would be a very difficult task”
I can imagine international recognition of Crimea officially becoming part of Russia if Russia agrees to withdraw permanently from the rest of Ukraine, but I can’t imagine any solution that keeps troops on the rest of Ukrainian soil. Or do you have anything in mind?
Effectively any discussion of what a compromise peace deal would look like has never been made public. Zelensky sees any such discussions as a total betrayal by NATO and the West.
I would guess any deal would have to accept that at least Russian paramilitary forces would remain on Ukrainian land.
The situation now is even more confused because the Poles are highly agitated by Zelensky’s stance on the air defense missiles which apparently do not even have effective self destruction mechanisms for the old Soviet era ones if they go off course.
Having worked with missiles at White Sands Missile Range ( WSMR) the United States Army military testing area and firing range located in the US state of New Mexico I can say tracking and destroying multiple missiles simultaneously while in a combat situation is not easy.
Biden has done his best to hold this all together and there are growing indications he is frustrated by Zelensky trying to draw NATO into a direct conflict with Russia. I have no idea where this is all going.
There is a discussion going on.
West ‘should not dictate’ peace terms to Ukraine, says Czech foreign minister | Ukraine | The Guardian
But I guess the US administration’s opinion is more influential than any of Ukraine’s other allies
I agree. But the killing will go on for a while I am pretty sure.
This Telex report cheered me up https://telex.hu/kulfold/2022/11/17/magyar-kormany-v4-talalkozo . Orban’s pro-Putin ass kissing destroying the V4.
And in English:
Clear words – nothing new for us here:
Mearsheimer [US political scientist]: “It [the Hungary trip] was actually fascinating. I learned a great deal. I was there for five days, Monday to Friday. I had a three-hour meeting with Viktor Orbán… And I had a one-hour meeting with the President of Hungary.”
At the end of the interview, Mearsheimer: “I don’t want to talk about Hungary… I just told you I didn’t want to talk about Hungary.”
Now that’s weird, a foreigner can speak very long with Hungary’s myghti lidur and afterwards doesn’t want to speak about it. Meanwhile OV tweets about the talk they had, but independent Hungarian journalists/reporters can never get even a short serious talk with “a kis gömböc” [the little ball = OV…]
I found at wikipedia that Mearsheimer works/worked [?] at the University of Chicago and studied at the United States Military Academy.
So Istvan [Chicago] what interesting things can you tell us about this man?
“I don’t want to talk about Hungary… I just told you I didn’t want to talk about Hungary.”
Maybe a book deal in progress or at least exclusive interviews at one of the networks?
A book deal!
Hadn’t thought about that, but that could very well be, and note that such a deal is easy to “play around with”.
I mean pay the original writer much more than normal would be for publishing and later on “create some serious sales” [e.g.publisher Szazadveg giving free books to friends of the myghti lidur…]
Professor Mearsheimer is very prominent in the meetings and events of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. He to be honest is used as a contrarian to many mainstream US foreign policy positions. He was invited to Putin’s Valdai Discussion Club and his performance can be seen here https://valdaiclub.com/multimedia/photos/john-mearsheimer-at-valdai-club/
He is very close to the same age as I am. He joined the US Army as an enlisted man at age 17 and never saw combat in Vietnam. That in its self is remarkable.
I suspect he took the U.S. Armed Forces military IQ test called the ASVAB: (the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) had very high scores and was offered a chance to enroll at West Point.
Upon graduation he completed his legally required military service as an officer in the US Air Force serving only five years. I have heard rumors on the military blogs he may have worked for Air Force General Ed Lansdale who was dual CIA and Air Force.
He has no contact at all with Fidesz supporters here in Chicago that I know of. I see him as basically an opponent of US global military adventures.
He really embarrassed and discredited himself by publicly arguing against the Biden/CIA assessment that Russia was going to invade Ukraine right up until they did.
He argued that Putin was too rational a player to do that and he had learned the lessons of the USSR war in Afghanistan. To put it simple he sees EU expansionism and NATO as driving Putin to invade.
He does not deny the Russians have done poorly in this war. He likely agrees with General Milley (chair of Joint Chiefs) that Ukraine can not militarily achieve a complete victory and force all Russian forces out of their lands. I actually agree with General Milley too on that assessment and I think so does the CIA/NSA/ and the United States Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM).
Thank you very much!
A US prof friendly to Putin… should give the myghti lidur reason enough to have a long [secret] talk with him…
I am sure most of you will have seen this by now: Hungary is going to establish economic cooperation with Iran, the country that persecutes and kills its own citizens. I am not even surprised. People are ironically asking if North Korea is next…
Bread inflation , October 2022 vs October 2021/
#1 Hungary 82.8%
#2 Latvia 36.6%
#3 Czechia 35.4%
#26 Netherlands 10.0%
#27 France 9.4%
If bread is so expensive then why don’t they eat cake?
Or even better:
Krumplis pogácsawhich consist mainly of potatoes – my favourite!
No young women (and men) – no revolution
“Hostage diplomacy: Budapest blackmails Brussels into releasing billions
Hungary has backed the EU into a corner, blocking Ukraine aid and a global tax deal until it unlocks billions in EU funds.”
“If the Commission releases the money to Viktor Orbán, Ursula von der Leyen will be personally responsible for turning Hungary into a swamp of corruption,”
President Zelensky with his adamant denials of Ukrainian responsibility for the missile strike hitting Poland opened the door for this Fidesz attack today https://magyarnemzet.hu/kulfold/2022/11/az-ukranok-nyiltan-hazudnak-kiakadt-a-nato-egyik-diplomataja
Zelensky believes I am guessing that NATO, Poland, and the USA want to avoid a conflict with Russia and are blaming Ukrainian forces. I doubt that is true, but if it were true I doubt Zelensky even with his media skills could do anything about it.
The truth of the situation is without the billions in military and civil aid going to Ukraine from the West Putin might be touring Kyiv by now. There is growing frustration with Zelensky in the Biden administration and some discomfort with Zelensky not being just thankful for the support the west has given him. That attitude is typical of a great power nation and I am sure infuriates Zelensky.
I hope the Ukrainian Army has enough left for one more offensive to regain additional territory before Zelensky is effectively forced to try and negotiate with the murdering Putin. Facts on the ground are very important.
“Putin might be touring Kyiv by now” and next year Poland and/or the Baltic states …
Just like Hitler was touring Vienna, Prague, Paris, Brussels etc …
We’ve seen several pictures of Horthy and Hitler in an automobile. Was Hitler ever in Budapest?
“Zelensky with his adamant denials”
Zelensky is not a politician.
Isn’t it possible that he really believes that Russian missiles hit Przewodów?
Isn’t it possible that the US and NATO leaders also know this but they do not want to make a fuss about these stray missiles ?
As I was told by one of my commanders during the battle of An Loc in 1972, just because it might be true does not mean it is relevant. Right now we have to move on.
Zelensky has to let it go, he needs one one serious offensive to gain leverage for peace discussions. NATO and the USA will force him to the table with the son of a bitch Sergey Lavrov.
The start page of the independent website 24.hu has not been available in the last 4 hours. (The regime wants to bring tax-related charges against its owner)
But the sub-pages (https://24.hu/belfold/, https://24.hu/kulfold/, etc) are still working….
Today, the Russian army occupied at least one village (Opytne) and surrounding area 2 km from the 2014 ceasefire line. near the town of Donetsk.
Opytne was one of the only 5 remaining villages on the 2014 ceasefire line that the Russian had not managed to overrun since February 24.
Poor Kövér Laszlo!
He wanted so much to have a beer with his V4 friends in Bratislava – but none of those wanted to meet him!
And he probably also wanted to do some cheap shopping in Slovakia where prices of many foods and electronics and … are much lower than in Hungary.
So Magyar Hang ran this article on November 11, 2022 https://hang.hu/publicisztika/a-polgarhaboru-eloerzete-148544 written by Robert Puzsér. The title translates to “A premonition of civil war.”
The Civil War will according to Puzsér will take place here in the USA. He writes: (US)”support for Ukraine’s war against the Russians is a desperate attempt by the Democratic Party elite to reunite America behind an international conflict and return it to the role of global power that Donald Trump has renounced, but an Eastern European proxy war against Putin’s Russia is not as palpable to any American as a civil war against America, with whom he does not agree on anything, whose way of life is completely different, whose habits, news sources, beliefs, superstitions and dogmas are different, whose worldview is completely at odds with him. The only thing they have in common is the English language – not always. This is America today, where its two extremes are grinding down its elite from both sides.”
Now of course this is to put it simple bullshit. If anything the US midterm federal elections showed a much greater support for the acceptance of democratic norms. Largely the slate of extreme right wing candidates promoted by Trump failed to get elected, but a few did. The Republicans took control of the US House of Representatives by just a few seats, but lost the US Senate.Many of the most violent of Trump’s supporters who attacked the US Capitol on Jan 6, have gone to jail. They are much more subdued now to be honest even though they made threats to disrupt voting in the USA they did not materialize during our last elections.
Trump has been publicly criticized by many former allies as being responsible for the Republican failures in the midterm elections. It is far from clear that Trump will win the Republican nomination for the presidency because he has many challengers now within the party, most of whom while equally right wing are without question more rational.
Puzsér like Fidesz members of my extended family simply does not understand a multi racial and cultural society like the USA, particularly one that is so heavily armed with guns. The greatest danger for American democracy right now could come from vigilante justice against crime in the big cities of the USA. We do have a massive distrust of police, not just coming from racial minorities who see many police officers as racist or right wing militias that see them as a force from the deep state, but also from middle class white citizens who see crimes like car jacking spreading beyond urban centers and flash mob robberies hitting suburban shopping areas.
We have many, many problems here in the USA, but we are not on the verge of a civil war as Puzsér would have my family in Esztergom believe. For that matter if you go to Mexico where crime and gang violence is far more out of control than here in the USA they are also not of the edge of civil war either. I would argue that civil society has broken down in areas of Mexico with drug gangs killing each other in the streets and gangs imposing taxes on members of the public just to avoid kidnapping and being held for ransom, yet no civil war is on the horizon.
There is bloodshed here in the USA on a daily basis beyond the comprehension of Europeans with strict gun ownership laws. But the USA enshrined our Constitution something close to a right of armed violence seeing an entitlement to gun ownership as part of US citizenship. But that is not a civil war, it’s fratricide.
One journalist has called Róbert Puzsér’s character a media-hungry busybody with B-list celebrity status. He is not afraid to make a pact with neo-Nazis when it serves his interests. So happened in March 2019 when it was about the office of mayor of Budapest … a media-hungry busybody with B-celebrity status who wanted to become mayor of Budapest. 😀
2nd amendment of the US Constitution:
The majority of the current Supreme Court completely misinterprets the meaning of the text, in my opinion.
With this, the Court does contribute to a “suicidal pact” of the society.
August 22, 1791: the slave revolt in Haiti started.
Dec 17, 1791:
2nd amendment of the US Constitution
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Omitted ending from James Madison’s text:
“but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person”
meaning in 1791:
Militia := slave patrol in the slaveholder states
bear Arms := serve in the militia as a soldier
As of today (and yesterday)
the independent website “24.hu”
#1 cannot be accessed via the internet provider that was taken over by the Orban regime
#2 can be accessed from abroad.
A very interesting article on the youth voting in the USA:
Circle belongs to the Tuft university. They found out that a large majority of young Americans voted for the Democrats – but less than 30% of young people voted in the midterms!
The number used to be around 25% so it seems young Americans are not interested in politics???
Strange, but a very interesting and kind of disturbing article and background.
Not sure that anyone is surprised that young people in the US and elsewhere are not interested in formal politics, why should they be, it’s a mess. There’s evidence that some are interested in a different version of politics though…
Well it depends …
At the German parliament election last year 75 – 80% of older people voted, compared to “only” 70% of the younger people under 30 years.
But in many other countries less than 50% of people vote – what does that tell us?
Go on then, what does it tell us?
The face of the small boy in Kherson expresses everything.
Putin – this is what you did !
Background info for the photo:
British prime minister Rishi Sunak made a visit to Kyiv on Saturday to meet Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy.
Now I’m wondering whether the HU prime minister will ever follow him – or rather visit his friend Putin?
I suspect if Zelensky was suddenly willing to cede Ukraine’s Zakarpattia Oblast to Hungary Orban would quickly be on the train to Kyiv.
Just like the in-law “descendants” who suddenly claim a right to inherit, whenever an alledged relative leaves something of substance, without direct heirs, behind.
Seems vassal Petike is preparing ‘is myghti lidur’s road to… [drum roll] Sochi [the location of the 2014 Olympics in… Russia]
See pictures of “a kakaska” preparing to leave at https://444.hu/2022/11/21/meglepo-hogy-melyik-orszagba-utazott-szijjarto-peter
and here his route by “military” plane #606 – https://www.ads-b.nl/track.php?AircraftID=4685814&datum=20221121
The NY Times confirmed the video of Ukrainian forces shooting Russian prisoners as legitimate and not a Russian staged production https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/20/world/europe/russian-soldiers-shot-ukraine.html Based on my experiences in Vietnam I am totally not surprised at all. I tried numerous times to stop South Vietnamese troops from finishing off wounded North Vietnamese soldiers during the Battle of An Loc in 1972.
I was a young first Lt and was considered by higher ranking South Vietnamese officers naive, other Vietnamese speaking US advisers told me I was wasting my time because the wounded communists would likely die from a lack of medical care anyway.
I would say the entire discussion in the US and Western media reflects no understanding of infantry combat. I have been reading Antony Beevor’s massive book on the Battle of Stalingrad where both Russians and Germans executed POWs.
In fact given the situation of some of the POWs in captivity they may have been shown mercy by having been shot. We had a US Officer who was an adviser like I was at An Loc whose position was overrun and reportedly shot himself rather than surrendering. He had told other officers and NCOs he would die fighting before he was put in a communist prison camp. I thought about that constantly during the siege.
Really the media understands little about all of this, it was also covered by Magyar Nemzet.
To make it clear, I was never in a battle. Shooting POW is a crime.
And in this case also a stupid crime. As far as I can judge, the Russian soldiers are not the most motivated soldiers of both parties. A chance to get out of the war for some could be to surrender. With the chance of being executed by the Ukrainians, the barrier to surrender will only get higher. Even their motivation to fight may increase. Russian propaganda will thankfully use this.
The photo below was shot of a South Vietnamese officer killing a commando in 1968. The South Vietnamese officer was South Vietnamese Gen. Nguyen Ngoc Loan, chief of the national police.
In 1975, during the fall of Saigon, Loan fled South Vietnam to the United States. There he moved to Dale City, Virginia. He then opened a restaurant called “Les Trois Continents” in the Washington, D.C. suburb of Burke, Virginia at Rolling Valley Mall.
There was actually an attempt to expel former General Loan from the USA for war crimes.
The deportation was halted by the intervention of United States President Jimmy Carter, who stated that “such historical revisionism was folly.”
Of course the Vietnamese communists killed many wounded US and South Vietnamese soldiers too.
The reality of ground combat is pretty horrible which is why so many veterans from all wars have PTSD including me.
I knew this story about Mr. Loan. And the picture. In this video the “Christmas truce” in WWI is discussed and put in perspective. It seems even in horrible situations human beings are able to find ways out if not prevented by “strict orders”.
It may be no war crime.
It’s getting crazier:
Council of the European Union
Provisional agenda (as of November 21) for the meeting on December 6, 2022.
The EU gives 10+ billion euros to the Orban government
The Hungarian government approves 18 billion euros to Ukraine
The Hungarian government agrees in the 15% minimal corporate tax.
Aren’t the EU afraid of rustler Orban‘s reneging on #2 and #3 after the adoption of #1 ?
Aren’t the EU ashamed of giving in to Orban’s blackmail ?
They could have surely invented another way to help Ukraine.
For instance, Germany could have borrowed the money at low interest rate and lent parts of the money at the same interest rate to the other 25 member countries (leaving out Hungary). This way the 26 countries could have given the same 18 billion euros to Ukraine without tacitly approving Orban’s corruption and dictatorship.
The Orban government agrees that Finland and Sweden can join NATO.
“Orbán was pictured attending a football match wearing a scarf which showed a map of “Greater Hungary” including territory that is now part of the neighboring states of” Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Ukraine, Slovakia [in its entirety] and even a tiny part of Poland.
None of the neighboring countries like this .
Five out of the eight countries above are members of the NATO.
Accession to NATO:
2009: Albania, Croatia
2004: Slovenia, Slovakia,
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania
1999: Poland, Czechia, Hungary
1955: (West) Germany
1952: Turkey, Greece
1949: all others
The patience shown by all EU and NATO members toward HU is boggling to say the least. It’s hard to believe Orbán can have his own way so easily. WTF???
We’ve discussed this often. My favourite point here:
Der Krug geht so lange zum Brunnen bis er bricht …
The pitcher goes to the well until it breaks
Oh yes the evil EU and the evil NATO has allowed that Hungarian fascists have chosen Orban and not only now. Look at Hungarianvoice, a blogger, who was once Orban fan today he writes for Mahyar Hang where again Hungarian fascists affine write – as in his blog Hungarianvoice felt 10 years ago. The teachers are partly also like that, at least the ones I knew. Let the Hungarians be fascists – Orbans there are millions here. Is it so important that the EU and NATO blackmail a country to be normal that does not want – what for? and please no blabla of values …
Zelensky’s advisor M Podolyak:
“Bloody wars start with same scenario: small leaders start dreaming about Great Empires. Anyone who wants to have political points in 21st century by parasitizing historical traumas poses a threat to international security. Unlearned lessons from history repeat. Even in Hungarian.”
I propose a scarf with a different picture on one side:
“The European Anti-Fraud Office (OLAF) asked the European Commission on Wednesday to recover nearly 11 million euros in European money that Hungary used to finance a regional waste management system that had no positive impact on the environment but led to serious problems such as fires and dangerous emissions,” msn writes. Isn’t that the case with everything Fidesz touches.
Let’s see what the EU makes of it … Orban is running out of money.
“The EU Commission is taking a hard line in dealing with Hungary’s rule-of-law shortcomings. Viktor Orbán’s government must therefore expect to be deprived of billions from the EU budget and the Corona reconstruction fund for the foreseeable future. As the F.A.Z. learned from a safe source in the Commission, the responsible bodies in the Commission have come to the conclusion that Budapest has not sufficiently fulfilled its reform promises in the fight against corruption. The Commission will therefore recommend to member states at its meeting next Wednesday to freeze 7.5 billion euros from three cohesion programs. In addition, the disbursement of 5.8 billion euros from the reconstruction fund would be linked to these points and further judicial reforms.” let’s go
It’s about time!
Fidesz behaves like the fascists did, difficult to see a difference between them and the Nazis.
Nazis are complete failures in every respect Orban Putin Trump KDNP-Fidesz Jobbik LMP 😀
„Orban’s food price controls are more about control than about inflation
The Orban playbook has now been played out for quite a while. It begins, as always, with a boastful policy to “help” his countrymen. But it always ends with a friend, colleague, or crony of Orban gaining a monopoly to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. …“
“The deliberate attacks and atrocities carried out by the Russian Federation against the civilian population of Ukraine, the destruction of civilian infrastructure and other serious violations of human rights and international humanitarian law amount to acts of terror against the Ukrainian population and constitute war crimes.
In the light of the above, (the European Parliament) recognises Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism and as a state which uses means of terrorism.”
The strongly-worded resolution was overwhelmingly approved on Wednesday afternoon with 494 votes in favour, 58 against and 44 abstentions, during the monthly plenary session in Strasbourg.
And guess what, OV’s vassal MEPs, while being present in the EU parliament did “FORGET” to vote… probably they were thinking of “peace/sanctions/EUmoney*” [*pick your choice, the vote is on…]
Austrians have warned Hungary that Paks II would be built on a seismic fault and that based on Hungarian law this is illegal. I am wondering how long it will take for Orbán to change the law…
Since it is rumored that Hungary will receive the extra EU funds only in 2023, Orban announced today (November 24) that the Hungarian Parliament will vote about the admission of Sweden and Finland to the NATO only in February 2023 (instead of December 7, 2022).
Orban’s ministers (Navracsics & Gulyás) reassured Hungarian journalists. They are certain that Hungary will receive more European Union money than ever in 2023 (SEVEN billion euros).
German conservative (!!!) newspaper FAZ is not so certain, like 80% of the European Parliament and most of the Commission’s members:
The European Parliament seems to finally understand the gravity of the situation; the Commission and the Council, we’ll see. But reading many comments on Twitter, it’s clear that more and more people have had enough of Orbán and are openly calling for a Huxit from the EU and NATO.
The EP and Hungarian politics are two different things.
Fidesz is thinking about forming a new party alliance in the EP:
Fascist Fidesz and Friends
We’re only in it for the money!
They have never completely left the European People’s Party –
they are still present in EPP as “KDNP”.
Yes, tappanch, that’s really strange.
I’m not interested in any kind of religion but I’m wondering:
What’s so special about this party’s program?
Clerical fascists anyone?
KDNP is the same party as Fidesz.
Orban doubled himself to create the CDU-CSU impression on unsuspected Germans.
KDNP supporters are very active on social media, generally re-posting propaganda stories produced by US “Christian” sources and Fidesz propaganda.
Of course I know the general trends here – just hopng that more people will learn.
Tappanch, you probably meant “unsuspectING Germans”.
But it’s true: The CSU still contains many clerical fascists – from those with anti LGBT “family values” which have produced illegitimate children to those who nailed crucifixes to every office …
A bit OT:
We Germans can count ourselves lucky or rather successful in pushing the number of clerical fascists way down – now below one third of the voters.
The fact that more and more sexual abusers of innocent children are being found out maybe helps.
I won’t call the former German pope a pedophile without proof – but he had to admit that he supported several of them and helped them avoiding prison, how nice of him …
The national debt of Hungary, as measured by the Maastricht criteria
2019.09.30: 31.217 trillion (10^12) HUF,
a 53.39% increase.
Picking up the discussion from below on KDNP. My impression is while it is Fidesz, not all the Orban controlled Oligarchs are in on their projects. Money goes to Catholic projects via the KDNP.
The oligarchs in the orbits of Zsolt Hernádi and Zsolt Semjén get the biggest cut of the money from KDNP projects. Zsolt rules Esztergom indirectly with the consent of Orban and a member of his family is the mayor.
Semjen actually a Catholic nobleman, though many in Hungary don’t know it. His family was made noble in the 16th century by the Hapsburgs. He is Deputy Prime Minister in the second, third, fourth and fifth cabinet of Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.
Here is what the catholic church is preaching.
They should be ashamed of having such “shepherds”.
The opposition has nothing to offer except nationalism, and KDNP-Fidesz, Jobbik and LMP are already riding on that. Failure has a new synonym. What can go wrong?
I should not be prejudiced, but …
but the newly appointed Hungarian ambassador to Ukraine, Antal Heizer graduated in Moscow (MGIMO – Moscow State Institute of International Relations) in 1986.
At least he speaks Russian. What about Ukrainian?
Notable MGIMO alumni include:
Ilham Alijev, President of Azerbaijan,
Kassym-Jomart Tokayev, President of Kazakhstan,
Sergei Lavrov, Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs.
A brave cousin of Khamenei calls the world to support the Iranian people against the Khamenei-led dictatorship.
She also mentions that it is ridiculously easy to get around the current sanctions against the regime.
She was promptly arrested.
Niece of Iran’s supreme leader calls on other countries to cut ties with regime | Iran | The Guardian
Dmitri Trenin today has the lead article in RT news, both in English and in Russian. (Following the rules for this blog it is not linked.) Trenin is a well educated pro-Putin political scientist who was in Soviet Military intelligence as a full Colonel. His service for the USSR parallels my own in the US military in terms of service dates.
In his “opinion” piece today titled in English “Dmitry Trenin: A confession from Putin suggests that the Ukraine conflict could last for years.” He used a public statement made by Putin in his meeting with the mothers of Russian Army members now in combat in Ukraine to expound on the idea of a long war of attrition in Ukraine.
He states: “It looks as if the war will continue into 2023, and possibly beyond that. Talks will probably not start before either side is prepared to concede due to exhaustion, or because both parties have reached an impasse. In the meantime, the death toll will continue to mount, pointing to the essential tragedy of major power politics.”
He also argues “both sides believe they can win. The West, of course, has vastly superior resources in virtually every field that it can use in Ukraine. But Russia is working to mobilize its own substantial reserves in both manpower and the economy.” Really such an admission of western military advantage contradicts Putin’s propaganda and was extremely interesting coming from Dmitry Trenin.
He blames the west for all failures to reach a peace agreement. I suspect Orban and Fidesz find this messaging coming out of Russia most useful in their campaign to force Ukraine to trade away land for a period of peace. Moreover, Orban’s construction oligarchs mouths are watering at “helping” to rebuild Ukraine’s infrastructure. They already have vast skills in complex billing schemes used to confuse the minds of EU bureaucrats that can be applied to “helping” rebuild Ukraine.
I don’t think that Ukraine wants “help”from Fidesz in any area after the way they behaved as Putin’s dogs and the EU also has a very negative image of Hungary so I can’t imagine that they want any Hungarian company to work for/with Ukraine.
Better concentrate on Paks 2 …
Anyway Hungary doesn’t have enough qualified workers left – just look at Esztergom where Suzuki has already “imported” more than 1000 workers from India and other countries.
In one thing Fidesz was/is still very successful:
Destroying Hungary’s image in the Western world.
If you read any newspaper/magazine in Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Britain you’ll find that even the conservative magazines consider Fidesz as a kind of proPutin organisation or even Putin’s slaves …
And also everybody knows that the Hungarian education system and the health system are breaking apart – just look at the reduction in life expectancy when in most other countries it has risen again after the “end” of Covid.
A few hints how Fidesz politicians help Putin – from the US embassy in Bp:
You might also have a look at and maybe enjoy even the loonie comments on this article – by trolls like mariavontheresa (remember him?)
I would say the US embassy purposely underestimated the time these types of attacks on the USA have been going on. Certainly since Trump was voted out.
I think if the EU is sponsoring some of the rebuilding of Ukraine whenever this war concludes, then the Orban oligarchs will get their cut. So they can kick it back to the boss.
The USA will do something similar with companies like Bechtel Corporation getting contracts too. Then these companies will amply reward both Republicans and Democrats with trips, paid speaking engagements, etc.
When this war ends Ukraine will be prostrate before the world and bankrupt. Very possibly so will Russia. Ukraine will take all the help it can get rebuilding from the EU and much of those contracts will be carried out by companies in the EU including Hungary.
This expert opinion on the Orbán geopolitical policy has some encouraging points.
It might not be so encouraging to the average “Only Hungary”/Fidesz hangarounds.
America Is Not Going Orban’s Way | Balkan Insight
Tomorrow already one year ago. Such a loss.
I do miss her often in the mornings when I read the news from Hungary. I am thankful Istvan created this site and the outrageous Fidesz supporters do not spread their lies everyday on this blog.
Even though Istvan’s site here is interesting and others too no-one can really compare with our dear Eva.
Bu life has to go on.
If you want to laugh at some trolls again just go to Telex or this here:
Hungary is losing at least 50 000 people every year – not even counting those who leave to live and work in greener pastures.
“spread their lies” … Propaganda is lies – and one should not give it a stage. I fully agree with István on this.
Things about to get much worse for Hungarians and even Orban now agrees according to this Telex article https://telex.hu/gazdasag/2022/11/29/sokkolo-orban-beszed-az-elemzes-pontos-de-ne-olajjal-oltsuk-el-a-tuzet .
What this article does right is show how Orban exaggerated the economic crisis by pre-election give aways to voters. Once the central bank begins aggressively raising interest rates a recession will surely follow.
I am in rural Wisconsin now and food prices are very inflated and home prices even though depressed are not attracting buyers. Gasoline prices have declined some in the last month. Farmers are actually losing money even with inflated commodity prices because of their increased overhead costs offset the increased values of their crops, milk, and cattle.
Even though more and more farms are using advanced technology to reduce labor costs they are hiring increased numbers of Hispanic workers with families. So now even in rural Wisconsin stores are carrying Hispanic groceries.
This transformation is being promoted by largely Trump supporters who own many farms and small agricultural related industries up here who all claim their workers have visas, which I suspect is not true.
What’s going on with the media-scene in Hungary?
There’s a functioning internet.
There’s a functioning printer regime.
There are old-school short wave and VHF frequencies galore.
Where are the Hungarian voices??
Orbán secured Hungay a bad standing in the EU. What other opportunities can the elected chief screw up, on behalf of Hungary?
Where are the Hungarian voices?
Going back to older news once in a while I always stumble upon decisions by the Orbán government I forgot about, decisions or new laws that in any other country would have sent people to demonstrate in mass. And even though the list is just about endless, Hungarians simply don’t seem to care. I am actually surprised to see that there are still demonstrations in support of the teachers once in a while.
As I see it most Hungarians are just frustrated at the situation and fighting to survive in the economic catastrophe produced by the Fidesz government aka the Hun oligarchy.
Just a few examples:
Life expectancy in Hungary was reduced by about two years from 2019 to 2021.
The number of deaths was around 50 000 higher than the number of births.
Next year minimum wage in Romania will probably higher than in Hungary.
The census this year seems to show that Hungary somehow lost more than 300 000 people – where are they?
And I could go on …
Even though the Fidesz media try to ignore and hide those tendencies people see the consequences in their everyday life – just ask the members of my wife’s family or our neighbours.
A bit OT:
An indicator of the Hungarians’ frustration we see every day are the mountains of garbage/trash besides the streets that we see every day – especially the number of little pálinka bottles is growing enormously!
There are, and they are on the street, and if you read the 444, hvg,
Telex, 24.hu, válasz online, etc. you are able to read the truth about Hungary.
Some seem to be in Brussel.
Some who raise their voices are punished, and this is not a motivating example for others who are so poor that they heat their homes by burning garbage.
The “decent” Christian people try to destroy the ones who are not following their sick ideology.
This is the reality in Hungary, and I agree with Wolfi, the people have to learn to deal with poverty and a lack of products in the shops.
This happens with the Hungarian voices
… jár a munka jogellenes megtagadása. Doesn’t refusal of work fall under the human rights … respectively can a slave law force me to “be a slave or starve” … that is not really convincing.
The central organization of the administration of slaves only fired a few teachers. It would not surprise me honestly said if the principal to dismiss the named who do “not vote” or like Fidesz.
You mean they didn´t send a picture of their voting to the principal? (:
There was a physical education teacher not so long ago, who followed the order of the central slave law organization, “lessons must continue online”, he lay down on the ironing board and showed his students online swimming moves via Fazebook. I admire the sturdy ironing board and the funny pictures, there was also the video of the teacher who was punished for trivial reasons. A few days later there was a flood in Budapest and a meme with the gym teacher swimming on his ironing board in the flood in Budapest. I think the picture sums it up well.
Here are some more voices
You gotta admit Kétfarkú Kutya Párt always comes up with brilliant ideas. They hijacked again the Nemzeti Konzultáció billboards. "Endless…
These guys are almost funny ... Hungary rejects attempts to create a uniform Europe but sees no alternative other than…
Have we seen this already? https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking Hungary again is no 1 - with the lowest index of the EU countries…
István, this is off topic, but do you have an idea about how several obvious nut-cases in American politics (such…
The Fidesz EP group abstained from voting on the latest package of EU sanctions against Russian interests. This time, a…