June 15th, 2023

  • June 15, 2023
  • István
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Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 15, 2023 14:33

Today in Russia an essay by Sergei Karaganov (a former presidential adviser to both Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin, and currently head of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy, Moscow think tank)  is being summarized in many publications including in RT.

I know our host does not want links to Russian sites on this blog and I adhere to the ground rules and will not provide a link.

This passage gives the chilling tenor of the essay using the official Russian translation: “The credibility of nuclear deterrence must be restored by lowering the unacceptably high threshold for the use of atomic weapons and by moving cautiously but quickly up the ladder of deterrence-escalation. The first steps have already been taken through statements to this effect by the president (Putin) and other leaders, by beginning to deploy nuclear weapons and their delivery vehicles in Belarus, and by increasing the combat effectiveness of the strategic deterrent forces. There are quite a few steps on this ladder. I count about two dozen. It could even go as far as warning our compatriots and all people of good will about the need to leave their homes near the objects of possible nuclear strikes in countries directly supporting the Kiev regime. The enemy must know that we are ready to launch a preemptive retaliatory strike in response to its current and past aggression in order to prevent a slide into a global thermonuclear war.”

This essay represents a new twisted Russian logic that clearly now advocates for the use of tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine as some sort of preventive measure against a larger nuclear war with NATO and the USA.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 16, 2023 13:15

Bullshit logic – if tactical nuclear weapons are used against one or more NATO territories, firstly Hungary will be affected and NATO will officially become a party to the war. If Ukraine is the target, the West will not just stand by if that is Sergei Karaganov’s hope.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 16, 2023 17:08
Reply to  Don Kichote

I agree it’s BS, but in the extended Journal version of Karaganov article that I also read in translation he very clearly stated he does not believe NATO would respond to a nuclear attack on Ukraine by either going to war with Russia or even authorizing a nuclear attack against Russian forces.

Most US military analysts believe the massive response to Russia using nukes on Ukraine that Biden indicated would be limited to conventional bombing and missile attacks.

I think the Karaganov essay is particularly dangerous because he is convinced the West is risk adverse when a potential nuclear war is involved.

I have seen similar arguments made by retired Russian generals on Telegram before. But really they did not make it into Russia’s mass news as did Karaganov‘s essay. Really the US media is not discussing the implications of the Karaganov essay, maybe it’s thought to be just too crazy to bother with.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 16, 2023 17:47

Russian “news”-shows have proposed nuclear attack scenarios against the West, since the beginning of the war.
This is done in a highly presumtuous and arrogant tone, with a condecending, overly confident attitude, disguised as humor.
I think they want to boost public morale and keep people from contemplating the realities of such actions, Soviet style.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 16, 2023 18:30

„… to be just too crazy to bother with.“ I think missiles with a long range not necessarily nuclear maybe even aircraft would be the answer. One should not be intimidated by Russian “I’ll drop a nuclear bomb” megaphones. In any case, I am not impressed by Karaganov’s outpourings.

wolf
wolf
June 16, 2023 17:49
Reply to  Don Kichote

Even if the West dosn’t retaliate with Nuclear weapons it would be obvious that Russia is totally isolated.
Of course China, India and a few other states might stay neutral or even side with Russsia its image would be totally destroyed – think of Hitler’s Germany.
And of course there would be reactions, more sanctions – not peace talks as Fidesz suggests.
In germany there are also loonie Putin-friends. When I get into a discussion with them (not too often but sometimes you just can’t avoid it) I tell them to leave for Russia asap.
And I ask them if their wife was being raped by someone would they also want peace talks and compromise? Like you may keep my wife and half of my house but not my daghters …

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 16, 2023 17:53
Reply to  wolf

Orban in his radio show today addressed one aspect of potential nuclear conflict between Russia and NATO relating to the war in Ukraine. Orban said “it is worrying that two nuclear powers are planning to deploy uranium-containing weapons a few hundred kilometers from the Hungarian border.” (My translation) Orban is correct that both the UK and likely the USA are sending Ukraine these weapons.
Orban is referencing what we call over here depleted-uranium shells. The US military used them in our middle eastern wars. Such rounds were developed by the U.S. during the Cold War to destroy Soviet tanks, including the same tanks that Ukraine now faces in its push to break through a stalemate in the east.
As a US artillery officer stationed in West Germany after my duty in Vietnam I was involved with those shells.
The use of depleted-uranium in munitions is controversial because of concerns about potential long-term health effects. Normal functioning of the kidney, brain, liver, heart, and numerous other systems can be affected by exposure to uranium, a toxic metal.
My wife and I had a child born with severe birth defects who died very shortly after birth. There is some human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to depleted-uranium. It has been something I have been bothered by for years.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 16, 2023 18:03

Simply put the situation is escalating and it will likely get worse as the Ukrainian offensive progresses.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 16, 2023 17:58
Reply to  wolf

Total isolation matters little to the calculations of Putin operatives advocating using nukes now not in hidden parts of the internet but on state TV.

wolf
wolf
June 16, 2023 14:52

My wife just started to read about O1G’s Friday talk – then she broke into laughter and switched off.
He said something like:
It’s all Soros junior’s fault if a nuclear war breaks out now …

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 16, 2023 16:33
Reply to  wolf

Sounds like they are lining up a new super villain for the coming season of the old conspiracy soap opera.

Soap.jpg
Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Detreköy
wolf
wolf
June 16, 2023 17:04

Hungarian reality:
Robert Capa was the most famous photograper of the 20th Century – and of course he was Hungarian as we read right after his museum in Budapest opened a permanent exhibition:
https://telex.hu/english/2023/06/14/the-worlds-first-permanent-robert-capa-exhibition-opens-in-budapest
What Fidesz etc doesn’t want you to know is that of course he was Jewish and was forced in 1932 to leave Hungary (or go to jail …) as an enemy of Horthy.
He had a very interesting life – look it up on wiki (I won’t link to it because there might be a problem having several links in one comment).

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 16, 2023 18:02
Reply to  wolf

If they listed all the people who, during the Horthy era, were under Berufsverbot for ethnic and/or political reasons and left the country in order to work in their profession, separately, the Hungarian Who’s Who of the period would be very small by comparison.
Of course, the depression of the 30’s also motivated many people to leave.

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Detreköy
wolf
wolf
June 16, 2023 19:26

Back to Hungary:

My wife told me that O1G has been building a new palace somewhere in a village. It’s not finished yet but the two(!!!) swimming pools are already usable just a glass house and some other extras have still to be done.
I wonder whether there’s also a bunker which holds up against tactical nuclear weapons …

Last edited 1 year ago by wolf
tappanch
tappanch
June 17, 2023 01:13

Illegal migrants/refugees arriving in Europe from outside

Greece:
      Sea arrivals + Land arrivals

2023:  5,104 + 1,394 — through June 11 – y/y: slight decline
2022: 12,758 + 6,022  
2021:  4,331 + 4,826
2020:  9,714 + 5,982   
2019: 59,726 +14,887   
2018: 32,494 +18,014  
2017: 29,718 + 6,592 
2016: 173,450 + 3,784 
2015: 856,723 + 4,907 
2014: 41,038 + 2,280

Italy:
        Sea arrivals

2023: 54,205 — through June 11- y/y: slight increase
2022: 105,131
2021: 67,477
2020: 34,154
2019: 11,471
2018: 23,370
2017: 119,369
2016: 181,436
2015: 153,842

Spain
   Sea arrivals + Land arrivals

2023: 10.113 +  248 — through June 11 – y/y: decline
2022: 29,895 + 1,868
2021: 41,979 + 1,218
2020: 40,326 + 1,535
2019: 26,168 + 6,345
2018: 58,569 + 6,814
2017: 22,103 + 6,246
2016: 8,162 + 6,443
2015: 5,312 +11,624

wolf
wolf
June 17, 2023 11:25

Yesterday in Budapest pride month started.
Ambassador Pressman found clear words on the homophobic Fidesz policies:
https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/viktor-orban-david-pressman-kritisiert-homophobe-politik-von-ungarns-premier-a-e67d6fdf-c173-4b08-b3f5-1cca9e5a0e5e
Maybe someone finds this in English?
It’s always the same – fascists like Hitler and Putin, deSantis and Berlusconi, O1G and the Polish Pissers.
The freedom of others is not relevant, just their own christian “freedom” to ban and destroy relationships, books – and in the end:
Kill people they don’t accept.
There have been several cases of Polish women dying because of complications during pregnancy – which instead of an abortion killed the foetus too of course. Have there been similar cases in Hungary?
Those so called christians are ***expletive deleted***!!!

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 17, 2023 14:08
Reply to  wolf

Pressman is rightly using his position to speak up against Hungary’s bigoted tyranny, dresssed as religious concerns.
A lot of negative or even tragic consequences, all too familiar in recent history, can be expected to stain many families’ lives in Hungary.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 17, 2023 18:02

The Washington Post today has this in a article: “Putin said Russia would use nuclear weapons only if there was a threat to its existence but said there was “no such need” to do so. He boasted about the quantity of Russians nuclear arms and dismissed any talk of reducing them. “Russia has more nuclear weapons than NATO countries, they want us to reduce them, f— them,” he said.”

I assume Robyn Dixon an Australian national who is fluent in Russian and considered the Post’s expert on Russian affairs who is one of the authors of this article wanted this Putin statement included in the article given the discussion in the Russian media of an essay by Sergei Karaganov that I posted about.
The Washington Post never covered the Karaganov essay but Ms Dixon gets paid by the Post to cover Russia from Latvia I suspect read it.

Dixon is still listed as the head of the Post’s Moscow bureau but the whole bureau was moved out of Russia because these journalists did stories about organized opposition to the Russian war in Ukraine and likely could be arrested under a claim of being CIA operatives.

Putin’s statement quoted by the Post was an attempt to make it appear Putin is a restrained leader to masses of Russians who had just been exposed to Karaganov‘s first strike argument last week.
Effectively it tells the Russian people if he orders a tactical nuclear attack on Ukrainian forces he really was forced to do it and had no choice.

But most of the aspects of internal propaganda in Russia are lost to American readers of the Post because very few read Russian media or watch Russian television (especially Rossiya 1 the most popular TV channel in Russia with an average daily audience of 1,338,000) even though it is available in closed caption translation via satellite TV.) It has been banned in the EU as is RT and is without question a propaganda station for Putin. (See https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/03/02/eu-imposes-sanctions-on-state-owned-outlets-rt-russia-today-and-sputnik-s-broadcasting-in-the-eu/ ) The US Constitution prohibits most outright bans of foreign media in the USA.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 18, 2023 15:42

Propaganda:

“We are the black sheep in the EU,
but that doesn’t bother us Hungarians.
We have always made music away from the choir, even at the time of the Iron Curtain, when we were in the front row fighting for our freedom.”

Orbán would have said that in an interview with the Italian daily Libero. There was nothing about Horthy or released war criminals back then.

Information:

“We are not normal this is what we do for our freedom.” Completely sick in my opinion.

Last edited 1 year ago by Don Kichote
Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 18, 2023 17:25
Reply to  Don Kichote

Before I read your comment about Horthy I had a similar thought Don as evident from my post. Having had two old soldiers of the Austro Hungarian empire in my immediate family clearly instilled in me at an early age some latent Magyar nacionalizmus.

I often wonder if it’s a genetic defect? Of course the older members of my extended family all lost family members in WWII and WWI.

But what is strange is the old ones in my extended family agreed with my grandfather and great uncle bailing out of the Austro Hungarian Army just prior to WWI. One told me they would surely have died either fighting on the border of Italy or in Galicia.

I think Hungarian nationalism is fused with fatalism.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 18, 2023 18:03

Fatalism is a thought that could be true. But this has nothing to do with DNA but how you are brought up. Exceptions are therefore the hard to educate, which also proves that your immediate family is not one of them. After-trianon “if you lose you can’t help it” thought maybe?  

Did you know that here in the villages there is still the Védőnő. If a child behaves “abnormally” or the level of development does not correspond to the age comes the Védőnő. Can be good but also not … 🙂

To be in the “fate” in connection with fatalism is an own decision which one assigns to a coincidence one could also call it a matter of faith.

wolf
wolf
June 17, 2023 20:50

Wow!
Ambassador Pressman at the LGBTQ congress in Budapest had a very moving speech on the situation of minorities in Hungary in relation to the words
Szabadság és szerelem.
Everybody should read this!
https://dailynewshungary.com/hungary-cowering-before-george-soros-the-us-ambassador-outraged-again/
His opinions on the ruling Fidesz fascists are quite clear, impressive!
His mentioning Soros is a part of the joke on the Fidesz idiocies.
If they don’t agree with him and the basic ideas of the EU, NATO and other “Western concepts” – then they should just leave the civilised world and join Putin!
And now we’re waiting for the Fideszniks’ reaction …

Last edited 1 year ago by wolf
Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 18, 2023 17:02
Reply to  wolf

It is good that our Ambassador is taking a firm line with Orban. But thinking he will never go over to the Putin camp completely because of EU money and maybe some latent fears of getting a Russian bullet in the back of his head maybe underestimates the insane nature of Hungarian nationalism.

Horthy was initially rational about Hitler’s chances of defeating both a United west and the USSR. But the idea of being the father of the restoration of greater Hungary won him over to joining the great Nazi project. I hope Putin can’t make the same appeal to Orban.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 18, 2023 17:10
Reply to  wolf

Unfortunately, Hungary does not have one David Pressman, his speech is very good to my taste. It would have impressed me if a Hungarian politician had said that publicly, that seems utopian today.

Wolfi what I stumbled upon was „I’m an optimist because I know that those of us that choose freedom and love are stronger than those who choose hate and fear. We are stronger because we fight for something better, something good, something worthy, something just, and the United States of America will always be on that side, and by your side in this righteous struggle.“ Yes he is an optimist but it doesn’t work with Trump.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 18, 2023 18:38
Reply to  Don Kichote

Oh the idea that our foreign policy here in the USA is “ something better, something good, something worthy, something just” seems naive to me.

But sometimes the USA has indeed been on the right side of something just. Other times we have operated based on great power politics and cutting our losses in wars.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 18, 2023 19:11

Istvan what whiskey do you drink.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 03:59
Reply to  Don Kichote

Usually Maker’s Mark from Kentucky.?

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 19, 2023 11:03

You didn’t read wolfi’s link, your conclusion is taken out of context. That’s why Pressman said the Orban media should publish his whole speech and not just pleasing parts of it. If you read the speech is there nothing of naive.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 18, 2023 17:52

By the way the Russians are staging a fake debate with Sergei Karaganov in the media. today. Arguing oh no Russia should never carry out a preemptive nuclear attack in Ukraine. Participants arguing against Sergei Karaganov are Professor Alexey Makarkin, (Vice-President of the Center for Political Technologies) Sergey Poletaev, (co-founder and editor of the Vatfor project) Alexander Dugin, (who needs no introduction) and the list goes on and on.

Really in my opinion this is all staging for Putin to go on TV if he needs to and declare comrades our country is faced now with a direct threat of invasion by the army of the Nazi leadership of Ukraine. I had no choice but to launch a tactical nuclear strike against those attacking our nation.

It’s really a propaganda mad house over in Russia. Rossiya 1 had interviews with the fake denouncers of Sergei Karaganov today too. Putin’s version of an open media.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 18, 2023 18:11

Telex today ran a story stating: “US President Joe Biden has said that it is “totally irresponsible” for Russia to take tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus – bringing them closer to NATO’s border and increasing the chance that they would actually use those weapons against Ukraine. The Russian president announced on Friday that the first warheads had arrived in Belarus, which is closely allied with him.”
It’s not actually irresponsible if one assumes Putin is preparing for the possible use of tactical nuclear weapons on Ukrainian forces. It’s all dependent on how well Russian defenses hold up against the Ukrainian offensive.
It is apparent to me the leadership of the US National Security Agency is worried by all of this. It’s the ultimate nightmare. The US media is largely playing down the possibility of Russia going nuclear in Ukraine.

wolf
wolf
June 18, 2023 18:23

I can’t really believe that Putin is so crazy. At least his advisors must know that nuclear weapons would mean the end of Russia in the “civilised world”. No sane person would still interact with them except maybe O1G etc.
Even the Polish leaders are very angty about Russia taking nuclear weapons to Beloruss!

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 03:56
Reply to  wolf

Some of Putin’s boys think Biden will not have the courage to respond to Russian use of nukes with a U.S. nuclear assault on Russia.

It is a dangerous game being played right now. Let us hope it does not come to that.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 19, 2023 04:01

Playing down the risk of Russian nuclear attacks is as relevant today as it was back in the Cold War days.
Why? Because of the all–encompassing MAD.

The African delegation which just toured the war zone and had talks with the involved parties put the importance of the nuclear talk in proper perspective by not talking about it. These people are more conflict/war experienced than any others on the current negociation scene.
Dark horses – perhaps. Corrupt – probably, but not nuclear, for sure.
If the Ukrainian war is interpreted as a Russia vs US conflict, you have a point. But it is a basically European war, all interests considered.

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 19, 2023 05:33

Do you have any comments on today’s shooting near Willowbrook, Chicago?
We know (from you) that it’s not advisable to move out in the public space of Chicago without a wearing gun, but that has nothing to do with the US gun-legislation, or what?

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Detreköy
Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 15:37

Currently there is no disclosure about the mass shooting in south suburban Chicago as to the guns involved being legally owned
or illegally owned. In Illinois we have by US standards strict laws on gun ownership. I am legally registered in Illinois as a gun owner and also have a separate license to carry a concealed handgun outside of my home. I had to be checked against a criminal data base to have these gun licenses.

My concealed carry license requires a high level of training or military service. My guess is the guns involved were not used by legal gun owners.

In fact no arrests have even been made.

Europeans need to grasp the U.S. situation relating to armed violence is on a level similar to Mexico. Mexico formally has very strict gun laws that are largely meaningless since a dual power situation exists between the organized crime networks and the government. In Chicago police officers have been ambushed in certain low income neighborhoods and we are having trouble finding people to become police officers due to fear of being killed and also fear of being found libel themselves for unjustifiable shootings. We are I think down currently about 2,000 police officers from authorized levels. Most officer earn close to 100,000 dollars a year.

Most American accept that is the new normal here or try not to think about it,

If the second amendment were revoked tomorrow the US would still have far more guns of all types than people. The resistance against any effort to confiscate guns would likely be massive.

I am amazed that Chicago which is one of the epicenters of American gun violence is attracting tourists from the EU this year at record levels. I guess they believe the odds against being shot are in their favor.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 19, 2023 15:55

So – Is it inconceivable, that American culture could exist without guns, as common houshold items?

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 18:22

No but to implement changes you are looking at will take decades to reduce gun violence in the USA.

It is possible that there could be an assault rifle ban. But most killings are done here with handguns.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 14:45

The US no longer accepts the concept of mutually assured destruction. President Reagan disavowed the long-entrenched concept of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). The doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction held that—for two sides with large nuclear stockpiles—if one side launched a first strike on the other, the other side would retaliate.

The resulting nuclear war would totally annihilate both sides.

President Biden sometimes forgets that and speaks in terms similar to the old MAD doctrine.

The United States Air Force, for example, has retrospectively contended that it never advocated MAD as a sole strategy, and that this form of deterrence was seen as one of numerous options in US nuclear policy.

Former Air Force officers have emphasized that they never felt as limited by the logic of MAD (and were prepared to use nuclear weapons in smaller-scale situations than “assured destruction” allowed), and did not deliberately target civilian cities (though they acknowledge that the result of a “purely military” attack would certainly devastate the cities as well).

The Russians under Putin often refereance the MAD theory but have developed an extensive tactical nuclear force that does not assume MAD is a functioning doctrine.

The Hungarian born Edward Teller, a member of the Manhattan Project, stated early in 1985 “The MAD policy as a deterrent is totally ineffective if it becomes known that in case of attack, we would not retaliate against the aggressor.” That unfortunately seems to be some of Putin’s thinking.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 19, 2023 16:01

The nuclear scenario ends at the same station as suicide – of course, the question of which method to go by, and how fast, makes an academic difference.

Theestampe
Theestampe
June 19, 2023 11:34

Only in Hungary: Firefighters were told in a letter sent by the Ministry of Interior that they no longer have insurance… wtf?!?

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 16:02

Additional response to Michael Detreköy‘s question. Juneteenth celebration related shootings and killings took place across my nation. Those shootings which have even been reported across Europe reflect the nightmare of gun related violence in Black communities across our country.

One of largest outbreaks of violence took place in south suburban Illinois in an unincorporated part of DuPage County at a strip mall very close to a housing complex called Hinsdale Lake Terrace Apartments that accepts what are called section 8 vouchers for low income residents. At last count 23 people were shot with one dead.

The complex is named after one of Illinois highest income suburbs Hinsdale which has an average annual household income of $340,370, while the median household income sits at $224,185 per year. Another closer suburb is Willowbrook which has average annual household income in Willowbrook is $107,190, while the median household income sits at $84,366 per year. Many of the low income residents of that complex are African Americans using housing vouchers.

Almost none of the residents of those two nearby suburbs would qualify for a section 8 housing voucher. The residents of the apartment complex interviewed following the shooting commented about how the complex had descended into violence in the last five years. Some of the residents had moved there from other high poverty areas, including parts of Chicago, to escape gang violence and get access to better schools for their children. Now all that has followed them. This particular mass shooting in suburban Chicago is complex because it also involves racial segregation in America and our social class divisions.

As I stated in my earlier post the shooters have not been arrested and they could even have been rival gang members from outside that housing complex. We have so many unsolved shootings in the Chicago metropolitan area it is mind boggling. Most shootings are not resolved by an arrest of a shooter. Our police are overwhelmed and it has further emboldened criminals here.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 20, 2023 23:14

As of today still no arrests for these shootings in the south suburbs of Chicago.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 16:57

This story that came out today on Reuters is very unnerving about what Putin may be up to in regards to nukes and Ukraine. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-spy-chief-flags-suspicious-ukrainian-nuclear-activity-2023-06-19/#:~:text=Naryshkin%20said%20in%20a%20statement%20that%20his%20service,at%20a%20spent%20fuel%20storage%20facility%20in%20Chornobyl.

I suspect the White House is worried too, but Biden is trying to keep the nuclear issue out of the news as it could accelerate Russian nuclear threats.

Jan
Jan
June 20, 2023 07:38
Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 20, 2023 23:12
Reply to  Jan

Yes President Biden admitted and verified on Sunday the Russians now have operational tactical nuclear weapons In Belarus.

But prior to that really it was all silence. Formally the National Security Agency has stated they have seen no indication the Russians are preparing to use nukes. I hope they are correct.

Jan
Jan
June 21, 2023 12:27

He did not admit anything. To admit according to the Cambridge Dictionary:
“to agree that something is true, especially unwillingly“.
Here are some examples of Joe Biden talking about the Russian nuclear threat:
twelfth of October 2022:
Biden sends a careful but chilling new nuclear message to Putin in CNN interview | CNN Politics
September 2022:
President Biden warns Vladimir Putin not to use nuclear weapons: “Don’t. Don’t. Don’t.” – 60 Minutes – CBS News
Biden states that the nuclear threat is real. Putin brags with it.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jan
Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 17:05

This is pretty ugly https://magyarnemzet.hu/belfold/2023/06/magyarorszag-szabad-orszag-mindenki-azt-mond-amit-akar Our US ambassador has really pissed of the Fidesz crew.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 19, 2023 19:11

This is what Pressman predicted in his speech, or rather, it was logical. To be honest, I did not understand what Gulyás wants to say …

“… Ezek után zavaros fejtegetésbe kezdett, hogy szerinte ma Magyarországon a kommunista időket idézve jelentgetni kell a meleg szomszédokról, és hogy szerinte Magyarországon és Oroszországban tilos a homoszexualitásról beszélni. …” Sounds like Gulyás is stumbling along, making creepy stupid remarks on the side. 😀

According to the Government Information Center :D, “The ambassador is for war. War supporters attack Hungary because we are for peace. Their interest is that the war drags on, and they want to drag us into the war too.” 😀 “HELP the gays drag us into the war” downright ridiculous for the brave fidesz politicians, isn’t it.

wolf
wolf
June 19, 2023 19:26
Reply to  Don Kichote

I think that much of this loonie Fidesz activity happens to divert from the real problems Hungarian people have – like inflation.
Why is it more than three times the EU average?
And I just read an interesting article:
In Germany inflation was around 6% but the “inflation felt” by people was 18% – many of the basic foods and other stuff everybody buys ever day became so expensive.
Now in Hungary inflation was around 25% but the inflation felt by common people was between 50% and maybe even 100% – foods like bread, vegetables etc became so expensive.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 19, 2023 20:11
Reply to  wolf

Unorthodox economic policy means I do what I want even if it is stupid. If it doesn’t work, we blame it on others – this has worked for over a hundred years. Orban the darkness in the light refers to instincts and who is hungry also takes a sack of potatoes.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 19, 2023 17:52

The Russians today are making a big deal about this article https://www.aei.org/op-eds/can-biden-deter-a-russia-nuclear-attack-on-ukraine-yes-if-he-gives-ukraine-tactical-nukes/

In appeared in a very conservative US publication on June 9 and was written by a relatively low level commentator. It called for Biden to give nuclear weapons to Ukraine to defend itself against a possible Russian nuclear attack.

wolf
wolf
June 20, 2023 09:20

Szijjart is getting ***expletive deleted***
Hungarian Foreign Minister says peace will come if Ukraine does not get more weapons
https://dailynewshungary.com/hungarian-foreign-minister-says-peace-will-come-if-ukraine-does-not-get-more-weapons/
That’s like telling a rape victim to just give in …
and
Hungary upholds the separation of powers and judicial independence, Judit Varga, the justice minister, told a conference on Monday, noting that the relevant guarantees were enshrined in the country’s Fundamental Law. In her speech, Varga said the country’s judges were independent ,,,
Almost all media controlled by the government,
Orbanistan is getting even more distanced from the EU and the rule of law!
Do they beleive all their sh*t???
Should we ask them to leave?

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 20, 2023 10:40

“… Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s Chief of Staff Gergely Gulyas said today that Budapest informed the Ukrainian authorities about the transfer after the eleven soldiers arrived in Hungary. According to him, they are not legally considered prisoners of war.” ah

They are not prisoners of war and they are not criminals. If they were criminals, they could become Fidesz, who are running around freely in Hungary. By what right are the Ukrainians in prison? Hungary is an arbitrariness State, isn´t it.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
June 20, 2023 15:03
Reply to  Don Kichote

But Don aren’t they all eligible for Hungarian citizenship because they came from Hungarian speaking trans-carpathian families? Maybe I don’t understand the law properly. But my extended family has told me that Hungarian speaking Ukrainians have the right to work in Hungary three months every year as well as the right to receive social services, free education and medical insurance during immediately when they enter Hungary.

They also have told me the Hungarian Citizenship Act of 2010 grants citizenship to everyone with with a clear line Hungarian descendants once a formal application is submitted.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 20, 2023 15:20

Is Hungarian citizenship better than prison?

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 20, 2023 23:03
Reply to  Don Kichote

I suspect so and maybe better than returning to the front lines.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 21, 2023 12:03

Living with Russian friends and becoming one of them is supposed to be better. To live in a country where you have to behave like a slave. 😀 There are many Ukrainians of conscription age living in Europe, none of them is delivered to the front, at least I haven’t read anything about it.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 21, 2023 17:12
Reply to  Don Kichote

The EU is a good choice for these released POWs. By the way so is the USA if they can get refugee status.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 21, 2023 19:55

Welcome to Chicago if you come from Ukraine here is less shooting … but this has been going on for fifty years.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 22, 2023 14:43
Reply to  Don Kichote

I read today in the Bild

“Apparently Hungary offered asylum to the Ukrainians, but they all refused. Nevertheless, the soldiers were not allowed to return home.” Hey not even prisoners of war want to Hungary. 🙂 8 are said to still be in detention without access to media and are not allowed to contact their own embassy. I wonder if Hungary’s top blackmailer wants to trade them for money?

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 20, 2023 21:43
Reply to  Don Kichote

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were made recruiting officers for a Hungarian-Ukrainian Hybrid force in the making – Just in case…
The friends in the Kremlin are probably happy to cover expenses.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 20, 2023 13:56

President Biden finally admitted that there is a problem with Russia and nukes see https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-says-threat-putin-using-tactical-nuclear-weapons-is-real-2023-06-20/.

But according to retired US Air Force officers who post on a closed retired officer blog I read the Defcon Level Warning has not been raised and remains at 3.

The DEFCON system was developed by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff and unified and specified combatant commands. It prescribes five graduated levels of readiness (or states of alert) for the U.S. military. It increases in severity from DEFCON 5 (least severe) to DEFCON 1 (most severe) to match varying military situations, with DEFCON 1 signalling the outbreak of nuclear warfare.

Some of these retired strategic command officers are agitating for a DEFCON 2 level. Others are arguing our homeland is not under threat but NATO nations could be, but to wait lowering the level.

Last edited 1 year ago by Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
June 20, 2023 16:09

This article in Telex https://telex.hu/eszkombajn/2023/04/29/chicago-taxishaboru-john-hertz-checker actually relates to both my grandfather and great uncle who arrived in Chicago from Austro-Hungary shortly before WWI. Not discussed in the article was the Austro-Hungarian Mayor of Chicago Anton Cermack from April 1931 to his assassination in 1933 while riding in a car in Florida with US President Roosevelt.

Mayor Cermack created a regulatory framework to the Taxi industry in Chicago and many other progressive acts. He campaigned against the Irish and Italian mafia interests in Chicago and was supported by almost all Eastern Europeans in Chicago along with Black Chicagoans. The Irish controlled Chicago Police Department had murdered in 1919 an unknown Chicago Blacks in a so called riot that was really more of a pogrom. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_race_riot_of_1919)

Following Mayor Cermack’s murder the Irish and Italians again took political control over Chicago. My grandfather and great uncle who were called Bo-hunks by the Irish were forced out to their commissioner positions with the city government. They moved to a suburban town that was still controlled by eastern Europeans following their purge but still controlled a lot of property in the city, some of which I still own to this day. My grandfather and great uncle believed Mayor Cermack’s murder was a mafia hit until the day they died and they hated the Irish then running the Chicago police department too.

The guy who murdered Mayor Cermack was an Italian named Giuseppe Zangara who was rapidly tried and executed for the murder and the possible attempt to kill President Roosevelt. He was a tiny man and my grandfather and great uncle called him the murdering midget. Chicago as this article demonstrates has always been a dangerous place, my grandfather always carried a short barreled 38 caliber pistol on him as did my great uncle. I thought the story about the shoot outs between Chicago taxi drivers discussed in Telex were interesting and knew little about them.

Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
June 20, 2023 16:28

Don just so you know the Chicago media is reporting today that the shooting you discussed outside of the city of Chicago this weekend at the Juneteenth party was only part of the problems for the Chicago area. An additional 73 people inside the city were shot with 11 dead so far. My wife and I actually heard gunfire Monday night from our home on Chicago’s Northside near Lake Michigan. But it appears those shots did not hit their targets.

During the civil war in Lebanon, Chicago was nicknamed Beirut on the Lake.for our violence and political conflict. The rapper Kanye West made a reference to that nickname again in his song Heaven and Hell released in 2021.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 20, 2023 17:17

Sounds like a military training ground – in my opinion the USA has a weapons problem. In Germany, more precisely in Essen and Castrop-Rauxel there was a mass brawl between Syrian and Lebanese extended families. The beginning was supposedly a simple quarrel. They came with machetes, clubs, knives and roof battens. The Hungarian clans go to Spain but were not mentioned. 🙂

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 21, 2023 16:34
Reply to  Don Kichote

In some areas of Chicago and also in our metropolitan area there were firefights between people linked to rival gangs over the Juneteenth holiday weekend.

In Chicago alone the police confiscated over 300 guns last weekend from our streets just last weekend. There were arrests for illegal gun possession in all parts of the city too.

Very commonly gang members will simply throw their guns in yards when police approach so they are not arrested for having them.

The flow of illegal guns is so high that gangs can replace their lost weapons rapidly. In some cases gang members have semiautomatic handguns illegally modified to full automatic. They then use extended magazines that can hold 30 or 40 rounds.

One Chicago police officer last month was shot down and killed by multiple gang members all using fully automatic handguns. She attempted to return fire but was overwhelmed. The gang members even took her service weapon off of her while she was bleeding to death which was captured on a surveillance camera. All of her killers were captured eventually none were over the age of 22 with one as young as 16.

The officer killed was African American as were all of her killers.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 21, 2023 16:47

To be honest Don even though both my wife and I are licensed concealed hand gun owners we might not choose to defend ourselves given that criminal street crews would likely shoot us down while we were drawing our weapons. So we often are not carrying our handguns.

Legally if we were to draw our weapons in anticipation of a robbery we could ourselves be charged with a crime if our guess was wrong.

Generally what is focused on in international reporting are events where a mass shooting happens with the shooter armed with a semiautomatic assault rifle. Those killings are really more rare than handgun shootings.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 22, 2023 02:38

Some dilemma!
Almost before I consider myself (and my fellow citizens) lucky to live in a country where a legal excuse for bringing a gun into public space, unless you are a police officer or a licensed hunter, doesn’t exist.
But then, it’s not a question of luck – it’s the law – simply.

Alternate Universe.jpg
Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 22, 2023 02:22

Reading this, I get the impression that the civil community of Chicago is as acclimatized to shooting and violence in public space, as the Hungarians are to corruption, lack of transparency and theft of common property.

Chicago.jpg
Istvan (Chicago)
Istvan (Chicago)
June 20, 2023 16:50

This 24.hu article is really excellent and provides a lot of information about the Russian disinformation campaign against Ukraine https://24.hu/tudomany/2023/06/20/orosz-ukran-haboru-tortenelem-dezinformaciok-1956-masodik-vilaghaboru-vlagyimir-putyin/ It translates well into English I thought, I do not know about German. 

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 20, 2023 18:15

From their own disinformation of the Russian similarly they did not speak, not the slightest mention of the same entanglement. It is an ode to old “Hungarian” territories. Almost probaganda.

From Gyóni Gábor, unfortunately, a lot of hearsay that should prove anything. The others I have not read I already know.

tappanch
tappanch
June 21, 2023 14:44

This level; of corruption was too much for the Vatican, but natural for Orban.

Hungarian public money + Hungarian government (minister Retvari) —–> 8.7 billion HUF —-> fake Catholic organizations ——> private money

https://www.valaszonline.hu/2023/06/13/zirc-ciszterci-viszgalat-berczi-bernat-drabos-erik-hatter/

https://www.valaszonline.hu/2023/06/21/familiare-retvari-drabos-alapitvanyi-hatter/

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 21, 2023 16:18
Reply to  tappanch

I am shocked that the Catholic Church is shocked. I believe them neither one nor the other.

tappanch
tappanch
June 21, 2023 16:46

Orban wants to take away the remaining money of the opposition parties.

He will use a government agency called “Állami Számvevőszék”, because he would fail in a court.

https://www.valaszonline.hu/2023/06/20/allami-szamvevoszek-amerika-penz-ellenzek-buntetes/

The 2014 Fidesz amendment of the law says:

A party cannot accept financial contributions from other states. from foreign organizations – regardless of their legal status – or from natural persons who are not Hungarian citizens. A party cannot accept anonymous donations either.

“A párt vagyoni hozzájárulást más államtól nem fogadhat el. A párt külföldi szervezettől – jogi státusától függetlenül – és nem magyar állampolgár természetes személytől vagyoni hozzájárulást nem fogadhat el. A párt névtelen adományt nem fogadhat el; ”

4. § (3)
https://net.jogtar.hu/jogszabaly?docid=98900033.TV

Before the April 2022 elections, this was the route of the money:

American money ——> PAC —-> Marki-Zay’s MOVEMENT (not party) —> (no proof presented) 6 opposition parties

So the opposition parties received money from a Hungarian organization, which is legal.

The secret services did not even find the link to the opposition parties:

https://www.parlament.hu/documents/129803/64121212/OGY_NBB_221123.pdf

https://www.parlament.hu/documents/129803/64121212/%C3%81tirat_OGYNBB_20230124.pdf

Here is a fresh Hungarian secret service report to Parliament about American activities:

https://www.parlament.hu/documents/129803/64121212/T%C3%A1j%C3%A9koztat%C3%A1s_min%C5%91s%C3%ADt%C3%A9si_fel%C3%BClvizsg%C3%A1lati_d%C3%B6nt%C3%A9sr%C5%91l.pdf

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 22, 2023 13:32
Reply to  tappanch

Thanks tappanch for providing the public section of the Hungarian secret service report to Parliament about American activities.

There is nothing in this public document that was not posted on Telegram channels already coming from Jack Teixeira’s leaks (called here in the USA the DISCORD LEAKS). I suspect the Hungarian secret service knows much more that is not even disclosed in the secret version of the report.
It’s safe to assume virtually all communications between Orban’s office and the Russians are being monitored by one or another US agency to the extent they can.

The Russian SVR is also spying on Orban more than likely to watch for his double dealing. The Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine or SZRU and the Main Directorate of Ukrainian Intelligence (HUR MO) is spying on Orban and all Hungarian activities related to Russia or Zakarpattia Oblast.

The SZRU and HUR MO have a relationship with the CIA, but it’s a complex one based on Jack Teixeira’s leaks that are discussed in the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/20/russia-ukraine-war-syria-attacks/ ).

More than likely the foreign intelligence agencies of many NATO nations are watching Orban now. He is no doubt a popular guy.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 22, 2023 14:48
Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 22, 2023 15:16

“However, Hungary’s Foreign Minister Péter Szijjártó said the Ukrainian POWs “can move freely in Hungary and do whatever they want.”” He thinks we are all Hungarians?

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 23, 2023 15:17

pusztastranger is threatened with a lawsuit for allegedly illegally used image. He has a blog like István our host. This could also threaten here if copyrights were violated …

wolf
wolf
June 23, 2023 16:05

An interesting article on populism and why so many people vote for those undemocratic populists – even if they (should …) know that they are no good for their country.
https://www.ips-journal.eu/topics/democracy-and-society/undemocratic-but-still-successful-with-voters-6792/

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 23, 2023 17:52

Orban grants money to Russian Orthodox churches. But other ecclesiastical communities get nothing in the best case because their pastor does not want to be bent by Orban. Instead, Orban sends the tax office by at irregular intervals.

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 18:26
Reply to  tappanch

Girkin:

Prigozhin is “ethnically and mentally not Russian”.
(His father was Jewish)
“He should be brought to a military tribunal”

https://t.me/strelkovii/5605
translation:
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672239980347785216/photo/1

Source:
https://twitter.com/wartranslated

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 23, 2023 18:55
Reply to  tappanch

Is this Cads’ fighting when ended is soon mended or the end of an egocentric friendship or egocentric probaganda. Thanks for the link it’s definitely funny.

Pantanifan
Pantanifan
June 23, 2023 20:36
Reply to  tappanch

Wow, looks like the infighting and the jockeying for position after Putin is getting stronger
Ironic that these guys are supposed to be fighting “Nazis” in Ukraine and they come out with this anti-Semitism… which ones are the Nazis?

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 21:40
Reply to  tappanch

Prigozhin at 21:15 Cebtral European time (25 minutes ago):

“the Minister of Defence urgently arrived to Rostov in order to conduct an operation to destroy PMC Wagner. He used artillerymen and helicopter pilots covertly to destroy us”

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 21:42
Reply to  tappanch

Russian Armed Forces launched a missile attack on the PMC «Wagner» camps.

“A HUGE number of our comrades died, we will decide how to respond to this atrocity,” – Prigozhin

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 21:51
Reply to  tappanch

Fighting between regular Russian troops and Wagner near Bakhmut (Ukrainian source)

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 21:52
Reply to  tappanch

Peskov (Putin’s spokesman):

“Putin has been informed about the situation around Prigozhin, all the necessary measures are being taken”

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 22:27
Reply to  tappanch

According to the National Anti-Terrorism Committee, the allegations spread on behalf of Yevgeny Prigozhin have no basis:

“In connection with these statements, the FSB of Russia initiated a criminal case on the fact of calling for an armed rebellion. We demand that illegal actions be stopped immediately.”

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 23:58
Reply to  tappanch

“”On June 23, 2023, the Investigation Department of the FSB of Russia legally and reasonably initiated a criminal case against Prigozhin E.V. under Article 279 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation on the fact of organizing an armed rebellion.

His actions will be given a proper legal assessment. For this crime, punishment in the form of deprivation freedom for a term of 12 to 20 years.”

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 22:54
Reply to  tappanch

Wagner channel:

“The liberation campaign against the degenerate Tuvan [Shoygu]”

“Russian servicemen who do not support this campaign [against Shoygu] will be considered collaborators with the Khokhols” [Russian pejorative of Ukrainians]

Pantanifan
Pantanifan
June 23, 2023 23:15
Reply to  tappanch

I guess they have to resolve the situation quickly, Wagner vs. Russian army = disaster for Putin

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 23:05
Reply to  tappanch

Shoygu probably directs the clampdown against Wagner from Rostov-na-Donu.

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 23:14
Reply to  tappanch

Russian Ministry of Defense:

“All messages and video frames distributed on social networks on behalf of Yevgeny Prigozhin about the alleged “strike by the RF Ministry of Defense on the rear camps of PMC Wagner” do not correspond to reality and are an informational provocation.

The armed forces of the Russian Federation continue to carry out combat missions on the line of contact with the armed forces of Ukraine in the area of the special military operation.”

“Prigozhin’s actions will be given a proper legal assessment in the framework of the criminal case, the Prosecutor General’s Office of the Russian Federation said”

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 23:35
Reply to  tappanch

List of Shoygu’s sins & mistakes, according to Prigozhin:

#1
The battle of Khasham
[On February 7, 2018, the US wiped out Russian & Syrian forces who wanted to capture the oil fields east of Deir ez-Zor]
“they [the Americans] are not there [said Shoygu]

#2
shell shortages during the Bakhmut meat grinder

#3
awarding Rustan Muradov [ethnic Tabassaran general of Russia] (for the enormous losses at Vukhledar)

#4
and today’s shelling the rear camps [of Wagner]

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 23:41
Reply to  tappanch

General “Armageddon” Surovikin on video:

“I appeal to the leadership, commanders and fighters of PMC Wagner”

” call on you to stop. The enemy is waiting for our internal political situation to aggravate. We shouldn’t play into the enemy’s hand in this difficult time for the country.

It needs to be done before it’s too late: to obey the will and order of the people-elected President of the Russian Federation. “

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 00:03
Reply to  tappanch

The FSB urges [the Wgner soldiers]

“not to make irreparable mistakes, to stop any forceful actions against the Russian people,

not to carry out the criminal and treacherous orders of Prigozhin, and to take measures to detain him.”

tappanch
tappanch
June 23, 2023 23:53
Reply to  tappanch

Armoured vehicles reported on streets of Moscow

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 00:08
Reply to  tappanch

Prigozhin to the Russian National Guard:

“Do not obey criminal orders” and side with me.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 01:17
Reply to  tappanch

The full 20 minute video with translation:

https://targum.video/v/2023/6/23/2e049271841357b3e1bc7610048c48d1/

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 00:32

Obviously Putin’s regime is in some kind of a crisis. I am just stunned the FSB has not shut down the internet completely and had Yevgeny Prigozhin shot while trying to escape. Yevgeny Prigozhin seems to be protected by hundreds if not thousands of Wagner troops in Rostov.

I have to assume the Ukrainians have to be tempted to commit their armored reserves when chaos seems to rule the day.

Possibly the Ukrainians are trying to understand if this is all an elaborate ruse.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 02:53

Russia’s channel one based on the closed caption translation I just saw stated Evgeny Prigozhin, the head of Wagner Group private military company, has been accused by the government of staging an armed insurrection. The commentator seemed most agitated to say the least.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 24, 2023 03:38

Putin’s absence is an indication.
Most Russians won’t be able to discern a professional media happening relative to reality, since they have no references for comparison.
If he suddenly appears, some time after the media primed the public for a conditioned response, it’s probably not a real conflict, but rather a manipulative move for increasing public paranoia – unless the Russian media suddenly decided to abandon the old doctrine of denial and appropiate misinformation – which seems very unlikely to happen, as it would profoundly confuse the Russian society in general.
Keep in mind, that the govt. approved conscription of criminal convicts
by the Wagner outfit backfired and Putin needs to distance himself from that mistake, in order to retain credibility. Since Wagner sides with violent criminals, it shouldn’t be too difficult.

Last edited 11 months ago by Michael Detreköy
wolf
wolf
June 24, 2023 10:41

Prigoshin is a violent criminal himself – just look at the Guardian article I linked to.

wolf
wolf
June 24, 2023 10:39

Just found this article on Prigoshin’s youth and later developments – as a young man he spent many years in jail after many robberies and other criminal acts!
Crazy story – you couldn’t sell this as a novel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/24/yevgeny-prigozhin-the-hotdog-seller-who-rose-to-the-top-of-putin-war-machine-wagner-group?

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 12:38

Putin again used the masculine word Otyechestvo (fatherland) in his speech today, but at the end, he also used the more usual feminine term Rodyina (motherland), to my surprise.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 12:40
Reply to  tappanch

“antiterrorist measures are now being introduced in Moscow, the Moscow Region and a number of other regions. Decisive actions will also be taken to stabilize the situation in Rostov-na-Donu”

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 12:44
Reply to  tappanch

The word “fatherland” is actually not masculine, but neuter grammatically.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 12:51
Reply to  tappanch

Putin feels like a Tzar. He says he does not let the 1917 revolution repeat itself.

He says that the WW1 victory was stolen by the revolution(s) of 1917.
(“победу у неё украли”)

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 13:07
Reply to  tappanch

Chechen leader Kadyrov and Russian Orthodox chief Kirill support Putin.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 24, 2023 12:52

It is not yet so far but if Putin is couped the Republicans in the U.S. no longer has a leader and Orban has only Xi Jinping . 😀

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 13:15

Oblastys from south to north:

Voronezh —-> Lipetsk —-> Tula —-> Moscow

A Wagner column is probably in Lipetsk heading for Moscow

“The operational headquarters of the Lipetsk region urged residents of the region for safety reasons not to leave their homes without urgent need”

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 13:18
Reply to  tappanch

“Information about riots in two pre-trial detention centers in Moscow is not true” (official Russian source)

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 13:34
Reply to  tappanch

“All bus services between the Voronezh and Lipetsk regions are canceled until further notice”

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 13:28

The White House seems like everyone else to not fully understand what the situation is with Wagner forces. All western news services agree Wagner has taken full control of all Russian military facilities in Rostov-on-Don. That includes the command center for regular Russian forces in defensive positions in occupied Ukraine.

Wagner controlled APCs rapidly advanced on Voronezh and at least control military facilities there. There was a massive fire at an oil depot in Voronezh.

Obviously the US NSA and CIA is deeply worried about the situation of the Russian 12th Main Directorate that maintain nuclear weapon storage facilities across Russia. Based on videos a number of higher ranking Russian commanders in the command center at Rostov-on-Don appear to be cooperating with Prigozhin.

It is more than obvious that Yevgeny Prigozhin is not rational, possibly even less rational than Putin. He is now publicly stating that the Russian military invasion of Ukraine was based on deception and there was no threat from Ukraine to Russia. Yet he lost possibly 20,000 of his own forces in the Battle for Bakhmut operating supposedly under that big lie.

Yevgeny Prigozhin has also made statements claiming that the Russian oligarchs promoted the invasion to enrich themselves. He has vowed to liquidate the bad oligarchs, of course he is now obviously an oligarch himself.

Jan
Jan
June 24, 2023 13:34

Looking for rationality here is a joke to me.
And wasn’t the Wagner group paid for fighting? Did they ever care about a lie?
What did you mean to express here?

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 14:14
Reply to  Jan

I think it’s simple both Putin and Prigozhin are not stable people. But from the retired US strategic command officers posts I read last night on two different closed site blogs, they are much more concerned about Prigozhin taking control of some of the tactical nukes than anything else. As one of them stated a guy who broadcasts on the internet a video of himself beating to death a Wagner fighter who he believed collaborated with the Ukrainians with a sledgehammer is not a guy you want controlling any nuclear weapons.

I expect that Admiral Kirby the US NSA’s public spokesperson will say something today about all of this.

It is also concerning that US General Milley and the US joint chiefs of staff saw none of this coming. Nor did the Ukrainian military or NATO.

The Fidesz media seems to be publicly arguing Putin will emerge from this power struggle the victor. I have not seen a coherent reason why they are arguing that line, maybe Orban has hitched his wagon to Putin for so long he doesn’t know what else to do.

Michael Detreköy
Michael Detreköy
June 24, 2023 15:16

The Wagner boss plays the last card he holds. Anyway, his time as conqueror in Ukraine is well over, and now he can make his outfit useful by staging a false revolt against the military leadership which, in the end, will make Putin appear omnipotent and invincible at home. That’ll scare those who think seriously about revolting, and it won’t change the soldiers’ basic feelings about who is the real army and who is not, but, acutely interesting for us, there is the risk that the idea of revolting catches on and grows into a bigger movement.
Remember, the Russian public has no basis for a realistic perspective on the situation which, since the invasion of Crimea, has been carefully staged and falsely acted out, in all Russian media.
I think it’s fair to assume that Prigozhin will continue in his function as Jester at Putin’s court, they’ve gone too far together to quit now.

Last edited 11 months ago by Michael Detreköy
Jan
Jan
June 24, 2023 16:50

Yes, even I didn’t see it coming.

Reader
Reader
June 24, 2023 16:53

Ha ha but a good oligarch…

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 14:21

Prigozhin:
“we don’t want the country to live further in corruption, in lies, and in bureaucracy.”

This how Napoleon reconquered Paris on the road in 1815, as played by Russian movie director Bondarchuk:

https://youtu.be/tOmTuPrSFog

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 14:28
Reply to  tappanch

Correction:
as directed by Bondarchuk, played by Rod Steiger

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 14:40

“Erdogan has expressed his support to Putin in a telephone conversation.”

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 14:42

So far, the Ukrainian army has not used the opportunity of Russian confusion to advance.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 14:55
Reply to  tappanch

Yes that seems correct. No mass armored attack by Ukrainian forces so far.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:30

They made the same mistake last September when the Russian troops collapsed in the NE of Ukraine, they did not dash to take the Kremnina – Svatove line.

Ukrainian troops should take Melitopol NOW.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 15:00

The Reuters story https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wagner-head-suggests-his-mercenaries-headed-moscow-take-army-leadership-2023-06-24/#:~:text=ROSTOV%2DON%2DDON%2FVORONEZH,seizing%20a%20southern%20city%20overnight. Has a Reuters reporter verified report of Russian attack helicopters firing on a convoy of Wagner APCs that were advancing towards Moscow from Voronezh.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:02

Putinists try to block the advance of the Prigozhinists with trucks on highway M2 at the Oka river near Serpukhov (southern MOSCOW oblasty !!!)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzY6kZDXsAE-eCe?format=jpg

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:18
Reply to  tappanch
tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:34
Reply to  tappanch

“Column of PMC Wagner has reportedly passed Yelets of Lipetsk region”

(Yelets is on M4)

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:12
tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:27
Reply to  tappanch

In Rostov, there are both pro-Putin and pro-Prigozhin civilians:

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:32

Russian government (Roskomnadzor) just blocked the media associated with Prigozhin, probably 18 hours late.

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 15:52
Reply to  tappanch

I did find the complete failure of the FSB to shut down the Russian internet amazing.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 16:35

Last message:

“The information spread by some media: “during searches in Prigozhin’s offices, a Gazel truck with cash was found”.

I don’t have one Gazel. I have a Gazel and two mini-buses with cash intended for paying salaries, compensations for gruz-200 [deaths] and other issues. PMC Wagner exists for 10 years using exclusively cash, which is said in the contract. And I’m respecting this carefully.

When we were occupied in Africa, in Ukraine, and other countries, cash satisfied everyone. But now, they came with searches. That’s fine. Cash was truly found there.”

https://t.me/s/concordgroup_official

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 24, 2023 15:35

NEXTA ist asking are the elites fleeing?

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:44
Reply to  Don Kichote

An Antonov AN-148-100EM has crossed eastern Ukraine and it is now SW of Rostov-na-Donu

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:48
Reply to  Don Kichote

Mitsubishi Challenger 850 just left Moscow, no call sign

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 15:52
Reply to  Don Kichote

Sukhoi Superjet 100-95LR

from Tyumeny, turned sharply to south at Moscow.

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 24, 2023 16:19

Zelenskyy calls Russia a chaos state.

SMS: “Stay in your vehicles in any case. If you run out of gas, change to other vehicles! The Minister of Interior.”

Connections are purely coincidental.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 16:44

“First Wagner units have reportedly reached Moscow region on M4”

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 16:46
Reply to  tappanch
tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 17:09
Reply to  tappanch

“Bridge over Oka closed for traffic in Kolomna of Moscow region”

(On highway M5)

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 17:18
Reply to  tappanch

Military column is moving towards Moscow through Kolomna

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzZZgezWAAIVeAk?format=png

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 17:34

Moscow mayor Sobyanin has declared Monday a non-working day.

Authorities are strengthening the defenses in the district of Yasenyevo (south beltway, 15 km from city center)

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 17:49

Wolfi the German media is being cited a lot here in the USA about the situation In Moscow. Have you been watching and reading this stuff?

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 18:02

You can Deutsche Welle (among others) in English through https://vidgrid.tk.gg

wolf
wolf
June 24, 2023 19:25

I only read the Spiegel and FAZ but of vourse also the British Guardian which imho has moew on the “Russian Front”.
Wow!
There have never been so many comments here …

Don Kichote
Don Kichote
June 24, 2023 18:27

Prigozhin is 100 km from Moscow according to German news. So far he is not attacked by the Air Force. He claims that in Moscow the National Guard has joined the Wagner troops. Prigozhin thought about something beforehand, he did not just go.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 19:37

Progozhin suddenly gave up:
(provided this is not fake)

“”They were going to dismantle PMC Wagner. We came out on 23 June to the March of Justice. In a day, we walked to nearly 200km away from Moscow. In this time, we did not spill a single drop of blood of our fighters.

Now, the moment has come when blood may spill. That’s why, understanding the responsibility for spilling Russian blood on one of the sides, we are turning back our convoys and going back to field camps according to the plan.”

https://t.me/concordgroup_official/1303

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 20:00
Reply to  tappanch

Lukashenko, “in agreement with the President of Russia, held talks with the head of Wagner PMC Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Negotiations continued throughout the day. As a result, they came to agreements on the inadmissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre on the territory of Russia. Yevgeny Prigozhin accepted the proposal of President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko to stop the movement of armed persons of the Wagner company in Russia and take further steps to de-escalate tensions.

At the moment, on the table is an absolutely profitable and acceptable option for solving the situation, with security guarantees for the Wagner PMC fighters.”

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 21:52
Reply to  tappanch

It is possible this was an elaborate Putin plot to draw out the Ukrainian armored reserved forces to attack an obvious point of weakness in Russian defensive lines. Then be waiting with massed artillery for the Ukrainians to seize the moment when the Russian military seemed near collapse.

I began to read speculation about a possible Russian ruse yesterday when this story broke. I guess the intelligence people look for a KGB guy like Putin to try to pull off something.

What Putin will do with the Wagner troops is beyond me.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 20:13
Reply to  tappanch

‘Wagnerites are starting their tanks, and withdrawing from Rostov-na-Donu.’

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 20:54
Reply to  tappanch

One of them said they will return to their field camp in (the Ukrainian) Luhansk province,

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 21:11
Reply to  tappanch

A Wagner member is very angry,

“Criminals [like Prigozhin] cannot be trusted.
He acted like a complete idiot . If you do not have the balls to go to the end, then you should not start anything.

Prigozhin dishonored not only himself, but everyone who believed in him. I still hold on only because I survived the murder of two brigade commanders […] I will become even more cynical and perhaps never again believe in anything.

12 military pilots were killed in an attempt to stop the advance of Wagner.”

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 21:22
Reply to  tappanch

“Preparations for what happened were in advance. Everyone was instructed what to do and how to do it.

The task was to provoke the evacuation of top officials and leadership from Moscow. Then start occupying the buildings of the ministries. The plans were grandiose.

But the “politician with dubious prospects” [Prigozhin] was blown away in one day. It’s kind of a shame.”

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 21:30
Reply to  tappanch

Does Prigozhin have an alter ego named Bobrov?

https://t.me/apwagner/9167

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 22:08
Reply to  tappanch

Here is another passport with the Prigozhin name but a different face !!!

Passport #1:
name and BOD:
“Bobrov”, Prigozhin face

Passport #2:
name and BOD: “Prigozhin”
Different face

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzaQotnXgAQclny?format=jpg

Istvan. (Chicago)
Istvan. (Chicago)
June 24, 2023 22:53
Reply to  tappanch

Of course those 12 pilots could be relaxing in the Sun waiting for new identification documents right now for all we know.

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 20:28

“Cases of provocative messages with calls to participate in protests are recorded,

these actions are criminal, measures will be taken, ”

“Russian Anti-Terrorism Committee”

tappanch
tappanch
June 24, 2023 22:00

Putin’s spokesman, Peskov:

“The criminal case against Prigozhin will be dropped, he will go to Belarus”

Peskov on whether Putin still trusts the head of the Ministry of Defense: “I am not aware of any changes in this regard”

“▪️ Fighters from PMC “Wagner” who participated in today’s events will not be prosecuted

▪️ Those who wish from Wagner will be able to sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense”

The operation [against Ukraine] will continue.”